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Old 07-14-2017, 05:19 PM   #161
The Pro
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Originally Posted by KHAAAAAAAAAAN!! View Post
Lolwat? Oh my sweet summer child. Given your age, I'm assuming you weren't a part of the fandom until at least mid to late 2000s.

Harmony was THE ship in the years before Goblet was published and new female chars were introduced. H/G was the only ship that came even moderately close in terms of popularity/size, and the H/G following wasn't anywhere near as die hard. You probably don't remember the massive multi-year shitfit that the Harmonians threw when Harry began showing romantic interest in characters not named Hermione. Dozens of fan communities fucking imploded due to ship arguments.

And even after goblet, with the rise of Harry/Cho and Harry/Fleur, Harmony was still arguably the top dog. And this was all long before Emma Watson "got hot".
Then what is the rationalization for it? I've read the books, and it's exactly as everyone else says. Harry and Hermione share nothing but a platonic relationship. What'd make people write Harry/Hermione? Not that I have a problem with it, but it's usually done at the expense of other characters or some ridiculous happenstance and is almost never done well.

Well, I suppose I could just chalk it up to people having too much of a vested interest in the romance aspect and leave it at that. Much less headaches that way.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:02 PM   #162
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Then what is the rationalization for it? I've read the books, and it's exactly as everyone else says. Harry and Hermione share nothing but a platonic relationship. What'd make people write Harry/Hermione? Not that I have a problem with it, but it's usually done at the expense of other characters or some ridiculous happenstance and is almost never done well.

Well, I suppose I could just chalk it up to people having too much of a vested interest in the romance aspect and leave it at that. Much less headaches that way.
It's as others have said. She was the the central female character at the start of the series, and remained so until the end.

Every YA trope since the dawn of the written word dictates that the central female protagonist - assuming she doesn't die or turn evil and continues to be important to the story - will ultimately "end up" with the central male protagonist. Double the trope strength if she's described as attractive; triple it if she's attractive AND smart. GoF actually fueled the Harmony fanaticism when lo and behold it turns out that Hermione is an uberhottie when she actually gives a fuck about her appearence.

A particularly nutty argument that really took root over at Gryffindor Tower (RIP you beautiful shitstain of a website) was that Hermione's ability to continuously save the day, as well as her unflinching loyalty to Harry and Ron despite their many occasions of rampant douchebaggery, warranted a grandiose happily-ever-after love story with the hero, and anything less (such as a normal and caring relationship with normal bro like Ron) was somehow anti-feminist. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:08 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by KHAAAAAAAAAAN!! View Post
It's as others have said. She was the the central female character at the start of the series, and remained so until the end.

Every YA trope since the dawn of the written word dictates that the central female protagonist - assuming she doesn't die or turn evil and continues to be important to the story - will ultimately "end up" with the central male protagonist. Double the trope strength if she's described as attractive; triple it if she's attractive AND smart. GoF actually fueled the Harmony fanaticism when lo and behold it turns out that Hermione is an uberhottie when she actually gives a fuck about her appearence.
That... makes a disturbing amount of sense. Come to think of it, I don't actually know any reasonable example wherein the male protagonist doesn't hook up with the main female character (sans her death, mutilation, prevailing circumstances, etc). Huh.

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A particularly nutty argument that really took root over at Gryffindor Tower (RIP you beautiful shitstain of a website) was that Hermione's ability to continuously save the day, as well as her unflinching loyalty to Harry and Ron despite their many occasions of rampant douchebaggery, warranted a grandiose happily-ever-after love story with the hero, and anything less (such as a normal and caring relationship with normal bro like Ron) was somehow anti-feminist. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is complete bullshit. How does Hermione marrying Ron equate anti-feminism? People's rampant stupidity will never cease to amaze me.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:54 PM   #164
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That... makes a disturbing amount of sense. Come to think of it, I don't actually know any reasonable example wherein the male protagonist doesn't hook up with the main female character (sans her death, mutilation, prevailing circumstances, etc). Huh.
There are very few. I think it can mostly be attributed to the fact that most experienced writers of non-romance novels know they need to establish their love interests early, so it doesn't feel unnatural or rushed when they only devote a few pages or chapters to the details of a budding relationahip. JKR was not an experienced writer when she started out on the first few novels.

If Ginny had played a significant role in the first four books, and had actually had a few lengthy conversations with Harry (comparable to say... Harry's interactions with Luna in 5 to 7) you can bet your bippy that Harmony wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as it is.

Edit: I maintain that the best thing JKR could ever have done to solidify the validity of H/G would have been to have Mrs. Weasley tell a shy Ginny to accompany Harry through the barrier at Platform 9 and 3/4s in the first book. Boom go the ship cannons.
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:09 PM   #165
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This right here is why I feel like there's so many stories that are utterly shit. Everyone is guilty of it, including myself. Like, the first thing I do when starting a plot for a new story is to write the pairing. And honestly, how many great stories evolve from that? Not many. Denarian Trilogy, Wastelands of Time, By the Divining Light, Harry Potter and the Boy Who Lived, those are all plot first, pairing a distant sixth.

A pairing shouldn't define the plot, it should just be part of the plot. And, if it's not a romance story, then it should just be a minor part of the plot, if at all. Otherwise, you wind up with a hundred identical Harry/Fleur fourth year fics, and a thousand sixth year political!Harry/Daphne fics.
I disagree, there's nothing wrong with the pairing defining the plot if the story you want to tell is how a relationship develops between two people. The problem, IMO, is the immaturity in the writing of those types of stories on FFN.
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:15 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by KHAAAAAAAAAAN!! View Post
Harmony was THE ship in the years before Goblet was published and new female chars were introduced. H/G was the only ship that came even moderately close in terms of popularity/size, and the H/G following wasn't anywhere near as die hard.

And even after goblet, with the rise of Harry/Cho and Harry/Fleur, Harmony was still arguably the top dog. And this was all long before Emma Watson "got hot".
Was it though? My impression was that until HBP, the fandom was relatively equally divided between H/Hr and R/Hr, with H/G shooting up after OotP. Until OotP, it may have been the most popular Harry-pairing, but I don't think there's evidence to suggest that it was "the" ship overall (even though comparing to now it was definitely much more popular).

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A particularly nutty argument that really took root over at Gryffindor Tower (RIP you beautiful shitstain of a website) was that Hermione's ability to continuously save the day, as well as her unflinching loyalty to Harry and Ron despite their many occasions of rampant douchebaggery, warranted a grandiose happily-ever-after love story with the hero, and anything less (such as a normal and caring relationship with normal bro like Ron) was somehow anti-feminist. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It comes down to this fundamental view: that Harry treats Hermione as an equal, while Ron is an evil abuser, a trope rehashed over and over again in anti-Weasley fanfiction. If anything, one can even say that Hermione is more abusive than Ron (birds in HBP, punching in DH).

And for the record, Gryffindor Tower was actually an H/G site, which crashed and burned due to MsScribe's scheming, trolling and fandom wank, as well as internal divisions among the mods. It has replaced by Sink Into Your Eyes, which is still going strong after almost fifteen years around. Aren't you rather talking about Portkey, HMS Harmony or something?

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If Ginny had played a significant role in the first four books, and had actually had a few lengthy conversations with Harry (comparable to say... Harry's interactions with Luna in 5 to 7) you can bet your bippy that Harmony wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as it is.
You don't even have to change anything in the first four books. I think that two added scenes between Harry and Ginny in each of the books starting from OotP would have done heaps to help the pairing's popularity. Though I'd say that the level of interaction even in OotP now between H/G is at least equal if not greater than that between H/L. In OotP, in terms of major interactions, between H/L, I can only think of the Sirius scene, whereas with H/G, you've got the possession and Chocolate.

And even now, H/Hr is not really that popular in the general fandom (it's another thing in fanfiction). I think that over the past few years H/L has overtook H/Hr, and H/G is enjoying a lot more support after Cursed Child (though H/G was still by far the most popular even before).

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Edit: I maintain that the best thing JKR could ever have done to solidify the validity of H/G would have been to have Mrs. Weasley tell a shy Ginny to accompany Harry through the barrier at Platform 9 and 3/4s in the first book. Boom go the ship cannons.
Be still my shipper heart...
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Old 07-24-2017, 02:59 AM   #167
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Was it though? My impression was that until HBP, the fandom was relatively equally divided between H/Hr and R/Hr, with H/G shooting up after OotP.
It absolutely was. Sweet Christ... the number of 'Harry but not Ron visits Hermione over the summer and they have hawt pg13 relations' shitfics was absolutely staggering. There were nowehere near as many R/Hr livejournalers and or ff.net pages until their sexual tension really started to bubble post-Azkaban.


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And for the record, Gryffindor Tower was actually an H/G site, which crashed and burned due to MsScribe's scheming, trolling and fandom wank, as well as internal divisions among the mods. It has replaced by Sink Into Your Eyes, which is still going strong after almost fifteen years around. Aren't you rather talking about Portkey, HMS Harmony or something?
There was a continuous stream of hardcore Harmonians entering and sowing destruction at GT well before the eventual MsScribe sockpuppeting disasters. The Queens usually banned them, but some passionate fucking arguments were had.[/QUOTE]
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