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Old 07-02-2009, 11:45 PM   #21
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Ever heard of warming charm? Or (magically expanded) greenhouses?

They don't have to fight global effects of the winter. They just need to do so in small areas just to grow enough food to survive. And considering they can enlarge their crops (just like Hagrid did with pumpkins, iirc) it shoudn't be a problem.

I hate to have to point this out but nuclear winter blocks out the sun no sun no plants. It also probably makes water toxic. Also I wasn't the one to necro you owe your thanks to mansk.
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Old 07-03-2009, 04:12 AM   #22
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From what little of it we have seen, wizarding farming appears to be more advanced than it's Muggle counterpart. All the rules are off.

Not got sun? Charm yourself up some sunlight! Or, alternatively, cast a growing charm on the plants so that they grow without sunlight.

Biologically impossible? Yes. But magic says a big "fuck you" to biological possibility.
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Old 07-03-2009, 11:13 AM   #23
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Biologically impossible? Yes. But magic says a big "fuck you" to biological possibility.
Possibly, but then you have a whole new argument coming up. If you magically generate sunshine, heat, purify the water, fertilize the soil and whatever else needs to be done then it's effectively almost as good as conjuring up the food. As I see it, magical energy needs to come from somewhere and artificially creating sunlight, altering the plants dna etc. will require huge amounts of magic. So you begin to wonder when the trade-off stops being worthwhile.
Simple put, how much magic can you put into farming before you start losing more energy in the process than you gain by eating the harvest?
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Old 07-03-2009, 11:28 AM   #24
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/me blinks.

You're right, this is a completely different discussion. One that we've had many many times on DLP. So I'm just going to give you a few links...

http://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?t=8412

And

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5025577/...lbert_Waffling

Without trying to treat non-canon theories as canon, I'm just going to say that a good proportion of people have now abandoned the idea that magic is quantifiable and that wizards possess magic in any kind of core like a pool of magic that has a certain amount which is used up when they use magic. Indeed some (myself included) say that magic isn't energy at all.

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If you magically generate sunshine, heat, purify the water, fertilize the soil and whatever else needs to be done then it's effectively almost as good as conjuring up the food
Yes it is. As is the ability to transfigure animals from rocks, which we know wizards can do. But the crucial point appears to be that it isn't conjuring food. It's just almost as good.

That said, I don't think wizards even need to "generate sunshine, heat, purify the water, fertilize the soil", though I believe they certainly can do that if they wish. Rather, a simple engorging charm seems to be sufficient to make their crop grow.
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:44 AM   #25
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I think we can all agree that magic makes no sense, For instance.

You can't conjure food but you can conjure a snake which can then be turned into food.
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Old 04-08-2010, 03:05 PM   #26
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Excuse me?
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Old 04-09-2010, 09:36 AM   #27
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What the hell man? I thought it became a two-shot or something. Don't necro. If you want more about magical theory check the links in Taure's post.
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:19 AM   #28
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The Library doesn't have any no necro rules if I remember correctly, though I may be wrong.
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:42 AM   #29
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No necro rules... So long as it is an actual contribution to the thread.
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Old 07-19-2010, 02:02 AM   #30
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For some reason I wanted to laugh at the end. It was well written and definitely more about the concept of wizards > muggles, but taken too literally Harry's actions didn't make much sense.
4/5
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:57 PM   #31
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I'm disregarding the subject of the story, because it's utterly irrelevant to why this story exists. The situation, as Taure said, exists to test a voice in his writing. That said, the situation is laughable, but that's not useful for the author. Now onto the story.

@Taure: You've got a real knack for writing dialogue; you've managed to make your protagonist feel very menacing in just a few words. I liked the line: "The favours which I ask of you are not going to be entirely voluntary." Very nice.

However, I do feel your opening is a little awkward. I had to force myself to read it, which isn't a good sign. I think you were trying to go for something a lot of fantasy authors do, which is turning the environment into a character. You didn't really succeed here, because you didn't give us any feelings triggered by the environment. You just told us it was dark, gray, stone, and that the street was cobbled. 'Looming' is a good word choice because it provides a feeling to us, and I'd like to see more words like this. I also think that in this spot you slightly overuse the word "Dark". I get that you're going for a rhythmic sentence, but it doesn't really grab the reader.

"It" is in general, a very weak word to start a piece with, unless you've got a humdinger of an idea to afterward: "It was exactly unlike a sofa." Look at how Neil Gaiman uses pronouns and non-specific imagery, he's the master of that particular method.

Your description of how magic affected people was well handled, very clear and concise without being overly detailed or melodramatic.

Your conclusion is rushed, and feels almost cramped. I would suggest breaking it up into two paragraphs, at the sentence "After a year, a whole magical world was revealed to the Muggles of the globe, a magical world that quickly rose to power in the chaos that every nation was in, the only resistance the occasional guerrilla force who attempted to take down the wizards, before they either gave up after not being able to find their targets, or they were found out and killed."

For a study, I would rate this 3/5. The construction of the piece is very clearly awkward, the opening hook and the ending need a lot of help, but pieces of the story are quite nicely handled.
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Old 12-25-2010, 04:05 AM   #32
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That said, the situation is laughable
<_<

You know DLP has had a great many threads on the topic of wizards vs. Muggles? And they're always very vigorous debates. Indeed, so vigorous that they're always locked.

Anyway, yeah, as an example of my writing this story is several years out of date. There are lots of parts I would change if I were to revise it - most of all the conclusion, which I'd flesh out into a series of scenes rather than as an "epilogue".
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:35 PM   #33
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For some reason I seem to be stumbling on far more imperialist Harry Potter fics now-a-days. Anyways, as stated by a few above the beginning is rather dry and hard to push through, while I understand you were trying to set up the mood and the ambiance it could have been written much smoother and less melodramatic.

The story was suspense filled until Harry was unveiled to us and his inevitable confrontation with the minister. Even then you slowly revealed just why Harry was there and the entire tone of the story hinted at a dark Harry. It's a writing style I'm rather fond of even with the hick-ups you had at the start.

The epilogue was quite rushed and it looked like you were trying to fit a word limit there. That said, the idea was very nice and I would like to one day see a few one-shots and maybe if I'm lucky an entire story about a magical vs. muggle world war. Even if we may know how it ends it would be interesting to see how an author would get there.

Never could understand where some authors managed to come up with the idea that muggles are better then wizards. Yes we have nuclear devices, airplanes, tanks, infantry and more in every country with a standing army, but any wizard over the age of 17 can do the same with a flick of the wrist. It isn't a fair fight and it never will be.
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Old 12-26-2010, 07:17 PM   #34
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This and this are a couple of threads debating it. I think there are valid points for both sides of the debate. That being said, it's been a while since I've read Taure's story but I do remember enjoying.
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:39 PM   #35
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Very well done. I had a feeling while I was reading you were showing that Wizards are truly better. One question: During the nuclear assault,
Oh my God. Oh my fucking god. Diagon Alley is in the middle of London. IF Muggles can't win with conventional weapons, then they can't win at all. Whose idea do you think it would be to actually activate the global nuclear arsenal? The people who would lose almost all modern technology, or the people who have 3 different methods of popular available teleportation?

AKA, the technical capacity to relocate to anywhere on the globe almost at will.

Taure, everyone, please don't tell me that the Muggle actually won this conflict in any sense of the word victory. The Magical population could mass relocate to Antartica and live two miles under the surface if need be all the while using the Imperius and compulsion charms to trick the Muggle governments into launching the nukes. Given time, the Muggle world wouldn't even suspect anything amiss, especially if the Magicals took a little time, say two years, to build up further explicit tensions before the nukes got launched. And Obliviators blasting away keeping the secret a secret until it no longer mattered. If in a rush, and with some research on chain of command of locations, a dozen skilled users of the Imperius could subvert any nations Nuclear command structure.

Please don't tell me the Muggles did anything but die horrifically from the nuclear weapons, because those pose a far greater threat to the Muggle population than the Magical one. 10 minutes, hell 5 minutes, of warning and a hefty chunk of Magicals are out of direct bombardment.

I'm gonna cross my fingers, and pray and read.
_____________
Welp. I have read it. The summation is impressive, and the point is made. I have only one major complaint. That it was a single wizard doing it, instead of a team of Wizards ensuring the orders were followed from top to bottom, from Minister/President all the way down to the guy who pushes the button. The only other real issue is a lack of Magical resistance to something like this being carried out, it might actually be reasonable to there are magical safeguards on muggle places of governance and such. But again, that entirely relies on Magicals themselves, since the Muggles couldn't really do shit about it.

About the only way to make a story about such a conflict interesting, is to have it start and take place at 1930s and no later. Even then, the Magicals would eventually come out heavily on top. But in much more complicated fashion of course.

All in all, a good story, and an apt demonstration of the reality of any Potterverse Magicals vs Muggles War. And I pray this necro isn't considered terrible. Asked a mod, wasn't told no so...
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:31 PM   #36
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Oh my God. Oh my fucking god. Diagon Alley is in the middle of London. IF Muggles can't win with conventional weapons, then they can't win at all. Whose idea do you think it would be to actually activate the global nuclear arsenal? The people who would lose almost all modern technology, or the people who have 3 different methods of popular available teleportation?

AKA, the technical capacity to relocate to anywhere on the globe almost at will.

Taure, everyone, please don't tell me that the Muggle actually won this conflict in any sense of the word victory. The Magical population could mass relocate to Antartica and live two miles under the surface if need be all the while using the Imperius and compulsion charms to trick the Muggle governments into launching the nukes. Given time, the Muggle world wouldn't even suspect anything amiss, especially if the Magicals took a little time, say two years, to build up further explicit tensions before the nukes got launched. And Obliviators blasting away keeping the secret a secret until it no longer mattered. If in a rush, and with some research on chain of command of locations, a dozen skilled users of the Imperius could subvert any nations Nuclear command structure.

Please don't tell me the Muggles did anything but die horrifically from the nuclear weapons, because those pose a far greater threat to the Muggle population than the Magical one. 10 minutes, hell 5 minutes, of warning and a hefty chunk of Magicals are out of direct bombardment.

I'm gonna cross my fingers, and pray and read.
_____________
Welp. I have read it. The summation is impressive, and the point is made. I have only one major complaint. That it was a single wizard doing it, instead of a team of Wizards ensuring the orders were followed from top to bottom, from Minister/President all the way down to the guy who pushes the button. The only other real issue is a lack of Magical resistance to something like this being carried out, it might actually be reasonable to there are magical safeguards on muggle places of governance and such. But again, that entirely relies on Magicals themselves, since the Muggles couldn't really do shit about it.

About the only way to make a story about such a conflict interesting, is to have it start and take place at 1930s and no later. Even then, the Magicals would eventually come out heavily on top. But in much more complicated fashion of course.

All in all, a good story, and an apt demonstration of the reality of any Potterverse Magicals vs Muggles War. And I pray this necro isn't considered terrible. Asked a mod, wasn't told no so...
Welp, there's no necroing in the libarary. So you're pretty safe there.

Doesn't make it any less of a terrible post though. Just because you think it would be that easy to magically relocate an entire population doesn't make it true I'm afraid.

Not to mention that any speculation in the area is basically just making shit up.
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Old 08-02-2014, 01:19 AM   #37
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Welp, there's no necroing in the libarary. So you're pretty safe there.

Doesn't make it any less of a terrible post though. Just because you think it would be that easy to magically relocate an entire population doesn't make it true I'm afraid.
Teleportation is a wonderfully broken ability.

Harry Potter Verse contains 3 versions available to the general public. Aside from this, Potterverse Britain cannot number over 50,000 itself. Can't possibly. Scale that to the rest of the world, and you have a likely maximum of 5.8 million Magical people. Relocating most of them is not the problem. Not with Teleportation. It's just a matter of showing up at an appointed time. The real issues are building/clearing an area large enough for all of them, and international cooperation. Or even just several areas for smaller numbers of them, and possibly farm and livestock. Now, as to building shelters, as in, in case of trouble Apparate/Portkey/Floo here, man, that's relatively easy. A piece of cake even for a government which decides it needs such.
Quote:

Not to mention that any speculation in the area is basically just making shit up.
Like literally all fanfiction ever.

Except, in this case, I make nothing up except an assumption. That the Ministry isn't completely retarded, and is, despite what many would have you believe, a generally competent organization for the governance of its people. And that it can in fact, make use of its resources with some sort of effectiveness.

Which basically means that Muggle can never, ever, force any but the stupidest and most inept Wizards and Witches to battle. Especially after any sort of war gets going. Because the Magicals just teleport away to hidden locations. Locations which could be damned well anywhere the Magicals please, from bumfuck nowhere to the middle of fucking London. The Wizards could, potentially, just bore out some mountains in the Urals or Himalayas and never give a damn. Or just dig straight down about a mile in there native nations, expand outward until they have dug out and supported a large cave system, etc etc etc.


Really, the difficult parts are making truly enormous refuges, and international cooperation. Just making a bunch of different shelters and handing out the Floo Address etc etc is a piece of piss. Getting the people there at all is utterly and completely trivial compared to this.
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Old 08-03-2014, 04:45 PM   #38
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Cool, and I can just say that teleportation isn't as broken as you think it is. Since we're making shit up.

Main reason being? It would make the story boring as hell. "There was conflict but it really doesn't matter cuz wizards can just click their fingers and be somewhere else."

I can't be bothered taking this argument seriously, sorry. It would take too much effort to convince you that you are wrong, and frankly, I don't care enough.
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Old 08-03-2014, 05:03 PM   #39
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Ah. A wizards vs muggles debate.

Knoq, you're forgetting several very important things. As far as we know, there are maybe a few million wizards in the world. There are many more muggles. Numbers can make a difference.

Plus, it is totally plausible that some people would switch sides. I can't really see muggles joining the wizards, any muggle would feel terribly powerless among superhumans whose technological level can't compare to muggles for obvious reasons.

But if some muggleborns perhaps worked their way into positions of some power, or simply chose to live among muggles while using magic as a bonus to boost their existence, who's to say others wouldn't follow? It could certainly go both ways: muggles could want to dissect captured wizards to try and reverse-engineer magic (it would happen, because that's what we humans do), but there would also be some nut ready to start a cult and worship a powerful wizard as Jesus or something. Because a competent wizard could certainly transfigure fish and bread.
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Old 08-03-2014, 05:15 PM   #40
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Personally, I think any such war will not end well for either side, because of two simple facts:

1. Wizards are extremely powerful.

2. Wizards have an extremely small population, especially when compared to muggles.

So yes, wizards could do a ton of damage to muggles. But there are only so many of them, while there are so many muggles. And as history repeatedly proves, the superior military power, no matter how many advantages it has over the enemy, will eventually lose to an insurgency, especially when the entire occupied people has serious issues with the occupier.
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