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Old 06-24-2017, 07:11 AM   #1
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What would it take to get Dumbledore and Voldemort to team up?

It was a concept I toyed with a few years back. What scenario would be required to get Dumbledore and the Order to team up with Voldemort and his minions? I'm thinking of this as long after Voldemort has left Hogwarts - Dumbledore mentoring Tom Riddle stories and the like have been done.

A significant outside threat seems most plausible to me. The idea I toyed with was a magical disease killing off wizards, but I thought a more martial threat was more appropriate for an interesting story. Maybe if you made the goblins a lot more OP and put them on a path to wipe out magical Britain you might have a chance.

Thoughts? I know it would take a lot to see this.
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Old 06-24-2017, 07:51 AM   #2
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Old 06-24-2017, 08:58 AM   #3
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Old 06-24-2017, 01:37 PM   #4
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That's actually not a bad idea.
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Old 06-24-2017, 03:24 PM   #5
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Dumbledore, Voldemort and maybe Harry are trapped on craft of some kind heading into dire peril (cavorite-ship heading straight into the sun, a Nautilus sub crashing into the Mariana Trench, giant magical wale about to dive through a magical hell realm etc).

This craft has been taken over by one of Voldemort's Horcruxes, which has gone insane and wants to kill Voldemort and Dumbledore all so it can become the true Voldemort. Any attempt to destroy the horcrux would consequently require destroying the craft beyond magical repair, which would have results only slightly less lethal than what would happen if they waited.

The only way for Voldemort to survive is to use the other way of removing a Horcrux: remorse.

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Isn’t there any way of putting yourself back together?” Ron asked.

“Yes,” said Hermione with a hollow smile, “but it would be excruciatingly painful.”

“Why? How do you do it?” asked Harry.

“Remorse,” said Hermione. “You’ve got to really feel what you’ve done. There’s a footnote. Apparently the pain of it can destroy you. I can’t see Voldemort attempting it somehow, can you?”
Cue Dumbledore and Voldemort teaming up to help Voldemort rediscover his lost humanity and find remorse for his horrific deeds.

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Old 06-24-2017, 04:27 PM   #6
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It was a concept I toyed with a few years back. What scenario would be required to get Dumbledore and the Order to team up with Voldemort and his minions? I'm thinking of this as long after Voldemort has left Hogwarts - Dumbledore mentoring Tom Riddle stories and the like have been done.

A significant outside threat seems most plausible to me. The idea I toyed with was a magical disease killing off wizards, but I thought a more martial threat was more appropriate for an interesting story. Maybe if you made the goblins a lot more OP and put them on a path to wipe out magical Britain you might have a chance.

Thoughts? I know it would take a lot to see this.
This actually makes a lot of sense.

The OP goblins could be a good plot point. Goblins have been oppressed significantly. Basic rights are denied, they are abused and Aurors turn a blind eye. Resentment festers.

It all comes to a head when the goblins finally rebel. A new goblin vs wizards war begins, except that the goblins are much better equipped to handle wizards this time around. Wizards, witches and squibs are slaughtered indiscriminately. War drags on, with goblins pressing their advantage.

The threat is so great that the two most powerful wizards around (Dumbledore and Voldemort) and their respective factions (the Order and Death Eaters) must team up to prevent genocide.

...And now I really want to read this.
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:16 AM   #7
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I think the atmosphere of Matt's Incorruptible would be dire enough for Dumbledore and Voldemort to join forces.

Sure they may not wind up helping Muggles, but they'd probably unite against the common enemy.

If there's ever a Voldemort/Dumbledore team that means that there's a potentially apocalyptic threat out there because neither of them wants to be the victor in their little ideological battle only to wind up fucked by some other threat.

The challenge, of course, is writing such a believable, apocalyptic threat.
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Old 06-25-2017, 06:16 AM   #8
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A threat to wizardkind and/or magic. Because as far as I know that's the only threat they would both be equally interesting in stopping...

...but even then they'd probably be working against each other in some ways. Even if they are on board with defeating the new enemy and working together to do it, Voldemort would probably be trying to make sure that key allies of Dumbledore would be more likely to die doing it than his own followers (because once the new enemy is dead, it's not like he and Albus are going to continue as a team).

What within the confines of canon would get them to team up? No clue.
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Old 06-25-2017, 06:42 AM   #9
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A synthesis would be quite fascinating. Goblins on the warpath, a magical disease wrecking the world (perhaps linked to the Goblins but as of yet with an unknown cause), and an unlikely and dangerous alliance between Dumbledore and Voldemort that ultimately leaves both sides with frayed nerves because they always anticipate a betrayal of some kind and have to maneuver in that direction as well.

That alone has a lot of potential. Now add the possible romance, enemies finding love in each other – Bellatrix and Remus, Draco and Harry, Lucius and Hermione, Ron and Crouch, the gruff veteran Moody softened by Narcissa, the list goes on.
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Old 06-25-2017, 08:38 AM   #10
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Old 06-25-2017, 11:25 AM   #11
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A synthesis would be quite fascinating. Goblins on the warpath, a magical disease wrecking the world (perhaps linked to the Goblins but as of yet with an unknown cause), and an unlikely and dangerous alliance between Dumbledore and Voldemort that ultimately leaves both sides with frayed nerves because they always anticipate a betrayal of some kind and have to maneuver in that direction as well.

That alone has a lot of potential. Now add the possible romance, enemies finding love in each other – Bellatrix and Remus, Draco and Harry, Lucius and Hermione, Ron and Crouch, the gruff veteran Moody softened by Narcissa, the list goes on.
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A threat to wizardkind and/or magic. Because as far as I know that's the only threat they would both be equally interesting in stopping...

...but even then they'd probably be working against each other in some ways. Even if they are on board with defeating the new enemy and working together to do it, Voldemort would probably be trying to make sure that key allies of Dumbledore would be more likely to die doing it than his own followers (because once the new enemy is dead, it's not like he and Albus are going to continue as a team).

What within the confines of canon would get them to team up? No clue.
...And this is why I don't like reading plot bunnies. There are so many brilliant ideas floating around here. And yet, the odds of them actually being turned into stories that are written well are astronomical at best, due to a multitude of reasons.
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Old 06-25-2017, 11:00 PM   #12
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To drag wizards vs muggles into the debate, if you moved the HP timeline back a decade you put Harry's schooling years right in the middle of some of the worst years of the Cold War. Would a nuclear war worry wizards? I'm not sure a non-magical threat would be interesting however.
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:00 AM   #13
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To drag wizards vs muggles into the debate, if you moved the HP timeline back a decade you put Harry's schooling years right in the middle of some of the worst years of the Cold War. Would a nuclear war worry wizards? I'm not sure a non-magical threat would be interesting however.
I'm pretty sure the wizards could have prevented a full-scale nuclear war if they wished. They've shown the ability to directly influence heads of state before, after all.

But even then... that's an interesting question. Will nuclear war be a legitimate threat to wizardkind? My first answer is no. They'd interfere long before the war could get off the ground. But let's speculate. For whatever inane reason you can come up with, they don't interfere. Nuclear war occurs. How'd that affect them, if at all? It's pretty cool to surmise here, what with the literally limitless possibilities.
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:15 AM   #14
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I don't think the threat of Nuclear war would get Voldemort and Dumbledore to ally, personally.

If it's just a threat - it hasn't happened - then EITHER of them is capable of preventing that by dealing with the muggles directly. No need for both.

If it's already happened - nuclear winter or somesuch - then it's already happened and they need to deal with survival, in which case they're likely to be prioritizing their own factions in a scarcity situation.

You could tweak it and have one (small) nuclear bomb somewhere be shown to fuck with magic itself, and then the wizards realize that hey there are MORE of these things and the muggles might use them, let's stop that shit... only to realize that there's a faction of extremist wizards somewhere who are protecting these muggles because they have decided magic is bad and should be destroyed or something, but yeah.

Still hard to see that forcing them to work together long term, perhaps short term.

If you want to add muggles into it do a... genetically modified virus, or something. Make it intangible so that there's nothing to fight, really. Things have to be researched and countered and it requires the best minds and most powerful magic users alive.

But easier not to involve muggles overmuch, because if you involve muggles they're usually going to be the weak link... and either Albus or Tom can break that link without the other, unless whatever they're doing gets away from them.
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:56 AM   #15
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But easier not to involve muggles overmuch, because if you involve muggles they're usually going to be the weak link... and either Albus or Tom can break that link without the other, unless whatever they're doing gets away from them.
I was thinking muggles would make it boring.
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Old 06-26-2017, 09:45 PM   #16
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Perhaps a greater outside threat like death of the deathly hallows, or anti-wizard muggle hostility.
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:33 PM   #17
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If you really want them to ally, a very powerful wizard from the Continent taking control of countries would probably do it. If enough Governments start falling and Britain is next, I can't see them not working together or at least not working against each other in such a scenario. Maybe someone akin to Grindelwald though with more popular support.
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:39 PM   #18
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:33 AM   #19
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If we're in a strictly canon category, how about unprecedented natural disaster? I'm talking about supervolcano explosion that results in nuclear winter and somehow loss of majority of ozone layer at the same time without prior warning.

If we can go wild, external threat always work in bringing unlikely allies together. The Scourge or Chaos Gods will surely force the two of them to work together, no?
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Old 07-18-2017, 01:47 PM   #20
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Honestly? Probably an outside threat such as (as mentioned previously) a wizard from the continent which takes their combined power to fight, enemy of my enemy so to speak. The only other thing I could imagine would be Voldemort being able to full resurrection and using it to resurrect Arianna, blackmailing Dumbledore into helping him - not exactly a 'team up' but I can't really see them ever fully being on the same side due to their hugely differing moral stand points.
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