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Old 07-30-2016, 08:30 AM   #61
crimson sun06
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I'm not religious but do believe in a higher power. And as such it doesn't really hurts to pray for something you really want. Ironically, getting the things you prayed for does. Leads me to believe someone up there has a rotten sense of humour.
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Old 07-30-2016, 12:41 PM   #62
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I'd probably be shitting myself all the way to hell, but a real God would probably detect me lying about being straight anyway.
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Old 07-30-2016, 01:44 PM   #63
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I'd ask a bunch of questions that begin with 'Why'.
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Old 07-30-2016, 02:13 PM   #64
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@BTT

I don't know what that is, but it reminds me of Lovecraft.

Which, by the way, makes me kinda wish that the Cthulu mythos were real and everyone was doomed regardless if they're religious or not.
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Old 07-30-2016, 02:19 PM   #65
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@BTT

I don't know what that is, but it reminds me of Lovecraft.

Which, by the way, makes me kinda wish that the Cthulu mythos were real and everyone was doomed regardless if they're religious or not.
The wheel thing? That's one of the Ophanim, a class of biblical celestial being. I really don't know why people draw angels as basically humans with a pair of wings, their descriptions are much more interesting
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Old 07-30-2016, 02:45 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by chaosattractor View Post
The wheel thing? That's one of the Ophanim, a class of biblical celestial being. I really don't know why people draw angels as basically humans with a pair of wings, their descriptions are much more interesting
Wow, I didn't know that, thanks for info.

Also, that thing looks so weird and cool that I'm gonna now look for wallpapers with these types of angels.
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Old 07-31-2016, 01:26 PM   #67
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The wheel thing? That's one of the Ophanim, a class of biblical celestial being. I really don't know why people draw angels as basically humans with a pair of wings, their descriptions are much more interesting
Concerning Ophanim, The origin of the concept is the vision in the book of Ezekiel. There, the interpretation is God in a chariot and has nothing to do with angelic presence. The wheels in different directions indicated the God of Israel's authority in all directions far beyond the borders of Israel (this vision came at a time when Northwest Semitic theology held that three elements had to be together to form a collective whole—a god, a people, and land. Hence, whatever god they worshiped was the god over their particular land and them as a people. Moving outside that land meant you moved outside the influence of that god and ceased being a people, which is why captivity and relocation was so devastating). The concept of the Israelite God having authority outside Israelite borders was a precursor to, and in many ways, in preparation for the Babylonian captivity.

The concept of Ophanim expressed in the quote didn't develop until later in the Apocalyptic community of Qumran (Qumran document 4Q405) and also in Enoch, both of which are heavily associated with Apocalypticism. But outside the Enochic and Qumran waves of Judaism in the middle to late Second Temple period, there's little to suggest such interpretation was widespread until after it shifted into Rabbinical Judaism. There, Ophanim became a class of angels.
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Old 07-31-2016, 04:30 PM   #68
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Atheist. The idea that i'm created from remnants of exploding starts makes my mood much better than to be product of Adam's ribcest.
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Old 07-31-2016, 05:26 PM   #69
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Atheist. I was raised Catholic, but years of questioning the faith of my parentage, followed by years of studying classical history, have left me content to believe only in humanity, and sometimes that we can be Good.

I'm far more driven to awe by the majesty of the natural universe than I am by the words of beings invented by mankind to explain away the things they're afraid of.

Neil deGrasse Tyson said it best.

Besides, religion fails the simple logic test of if there was a single, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent being who wanted everyone to worship it, who claims to care about all of humanity, then it stands to reason that it would make itself known to everyone.

Since there are multiple competing religions who each claim to be the single true revelation of the divine, the mere act of asking the question of all of them meets the condition of failure for all of them.
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Old 07-31-2016, 05:47 PM   #70
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Besides, religion fails the simple logic test of if there was a single, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent being who wanted everyone to worship it, who claims to care about all of humanity, then it stands to reason that it would make itself known to everyone.
You do realize that not all religions are Christianity?
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Old 07-31-2016, 05:58 PM   #71
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You do realize that not all religions are Christianity?
Because that isn't also true of Judaism and Islam as well? Or Hinduism, just with many gods instead of one? Excluding agnostics and atheists, and tiny religions, that's more or less the world's population.
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Old 07-31-2016, 10:03 PM   #72
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I actually have another question.

How many people here live paycheck to paycheck and out of those people how many people are religious?

Growing up I always heard that the wealthy to higher middle class tend to be agnostic or atheist. While the lower middle class and poor tend to be more religious.

I have always wondered how true that was.
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Old 07-31-2016, 10:46 PM   #73
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Old 07-31-2016, 10:58 PM   #74
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I don't remember if I chose Atheist or Jew on the survey, but I'm a cultural Jew with Atheism when it comes to actual beliefs, so I can never decide where I fit demographically.

I was quite religious until around 16 or 17 when I reexamined what I believe in and decided I was an atheist. It took a while to sort out the cultural identity confusion this caused, but I've reached a point where I'm comfortable (even happy) to attend Seders and join my family in breaking the fast on Yom Kippur and discuss the morality/ethos of Judaism without believing in the same supernatural forces as my family.

As to "if religion is real" as put forward by chaosattractor, I have no clue, that's part of my decision to not believe in an actual deity. I'm pretty certain there isn't a god, and if I thought otherwise I'd be religious, it's a bit like "what if we wore shoes on our hands and hamburgers ate people" - far enough outside what I consider realistic that I'm not quite able to unravel an answer.
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Old 07-31-2016, 11:09 PM   #75
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I'm a Christian.

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Originally Posted by Peter North View Post
How many people here live paycheck to paycheck and out of those people how many people are religious?

Growing up I always heard that the wealthy to higher middle class tend to be agnostic or atheist. While the lower middle class and poor tend to be more religious.
I've never been poor. Not rich either. Grew up middle class. Currently consider myself middle class as an adult.
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Old 07-31-2016, 11:16 PM   #76
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Because that isn't also true of Judaism and Islam as well? Or Hinduism, just with many gods instead of one? Excluding agnostics and atheists, and tiny religions, that's more or less the world's population.
I can say with quite a bit of certainty that the Buddha does not want everyone to worship him. And while he wants the best for everyone, he also realizes that to achieve Enlightenment they must pursue it themselves, and that him revealing himself so to speak does not help that. And Buddhists are (I believe) around 6% of the world population.
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Old 07-31-2016, 11:27 PM   #77
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I can say with quite a bit of certainty that the Buddha does not want everyone to worship him. And while he wants the best for everyone, he also realizes that to achieve Enlightenment they must pursue it themselves, and that him revealing himself so to speak does not help that. And Buddhists are (I believe) around 6% of the world population.
The Buddha also doesn't claim to be a god. So he doesn't count.
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Peace is a lie, the greatest lie there is. The truth is strife. Struggle. Pain. Suffering.

And from that turmoil, power. The power to bend the universe to my will.

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Old 08-01-2016, 01:43 AM   #78
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Atheist. I was raised Catholic, but years of questioning the faith of my parentage, followed by years of studying classical history, have left me content to believe only in humanity, and sometimes that we can be Good.

I'm far more driven to awe by the majesty of the natural universe than I am by the words of beings invented by mankind to explain away the things they're afraid of.

Neil deGrasse Tyson said it best.

Besides, religion fails the simple logic test of if there was a single, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent being who wanted everyone to worship it, who claims to care about all of humanity, then it stands to reason that it would make itself known to everyone.

Since there are multiple competing religions who each claim to be the single true revelation of the divine, the mere act of asking the question of all of them meets the condition of failure for all of them.
That logic really doesn't hold up, but this thread isn't for religious debate as much as it's simply questioning who is or is not religious, so i won't say anything other than that, except to extend to you the same offer I did to others and continue the discussion in PM or somewhere else.
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Old 08-01-2016, 06:48 AM   #79
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Old 08-01-2016, 07:10 AM   #80
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The Buddha also doesn't claim to be a god. So he doesn't count.
That depends on your definition of God in the first place. Yes, he's nothing like God in Christianity. On the other hand, yes, he is the most important religious entity with the power to affect many things including suffering, happiness, etc.
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