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Old 10-21-2016, 12:35 AM   #41
Chengar Qordath
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Originally Posted by Innomine View Post
The problem isn't quite as simple as you make it out to be.

If we somehow manage to feed everyone, then those people are going to make new people for whom we will need to devote even more effort to feeding. And on and on, it's circular.

That's not to say we should try, but if we ignore climate change and simply focus all of our efforts on feeding the world while making climate change worse, then it just means more people will die as the climate becomes less and less human-friendly.
Not to mention that a fair bit of the world hunger problem isn't about lacking absolute supply of food, it's about distributing that food to the people who need it. It's not exactly a coincidence that deaths from starvation are far more of a problem in nations with with corrupt regimes, refugee problems, wrecked infrastructure due to wars or natural disasters, and so on.

Starvation caused by corrupt regimes is especially problematic, since sending them any form of aid tends to prop up the very regime that's causing the problems. Not to mention that governments which are willing to let their people starve to line their own pockets will inevitably try to find some way steal any of aid money we send them, sell the food on the black market, or some other dirty trick.

Turns out, you can't solve world hunger just by caring enough.
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Old 10-21-2016, 05:00 AM   #42
dhulli
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I feel like people are unable to relate because they cannot imagine themselves in that position.

Imagine if it were a man killing 3 million kids a year. Would we still blame logistics if we could not stop him?

Imagine if there was a natural disaster killing 3 million kids a year. Would we still feel the same indifference? A huge earthquake kills thousands overnight and the whole world comes forth with their outpouring of support. Countries lend their militaries to help each other out. It's a big feel good moment.
@Innomine: it doesn't have to be circular. Here we are talking about terraforming mars, I'm sure given enough effort, we could set up a sustainable food production infrastructure in these poor places.

I don't want to just send them aid, although that helps. I want militaries invading countries where a million children die a year. I want scientists working out how to grow crops in Africa and not fucking Mars. I want a coalition of countries that come together to bring real life human beings some semblance of humanity.
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Old 10-21-2016, 07:10 AM   #43
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It far too easy to fall into the trap of thinking we've got a monopoly on the right way of thinking, and therefore we should ban anyone who's too far off from the consensus.
There is a monopoly on the right way of thinking, and we should ban anyone who is very far off that consensus.

Let's do away with the nonsense that every opinion is equal. It's not, and never was. Democracy and liberal culture does not mean you can do anything you want, that's anarchy. Like all principles, freedom of speech needs caveats and limits in real world applications, and this is one of them.

There needs to be a minimal consensus in the way of thinking -- agreeing that, despite all different opinions, we support democracy, for one thing -- or it's just not going to work. In other words, we can debate about everything except about whether to debate. And once someone's opinion is to get rid of latter's foundation, it's simply an illegitimate opinion (and a party with that platform an illegitimate party), and he needs to feel this. My idea of a liberal democracy does not provide for not wanting a liberal democracy. The line is clear, big, and red.
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Old 10-21-2016, 07:32 AM   #44
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@dhulli

Starvation is a major problem in the world, but climate change has the potential to make every bit of life on this planet extinct. We're not saying that world hunger should be ignored entirely in favour of humanitarian aid, but that there is no point in solving world hunger, only to have our planet turn into a hellscape like Venus.

As well as that, climate change is probably going to cause mass starvation on a scale that hasn't been seen in human history. It will be the single largest disaster since the dinosaurs were wiped out.

If you can't see that climate change is a huge problem and requires a large portion of our resources to fight (necessarily meaning that we need to take resources from other problems) then I see no point in continuing this discussion.
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