Dark Lord Potter Forums
Go Back   Dark Lord Potter Forums > FanFiction Extras > FanFic Discussion
Donate Register Rules Library List IRC Chat FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Donate to DLP Scryer Banner

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-21-2014, 01:20 PM   #81
DC
Seventh Year
 
DC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 299
Wow, and I thought Physics was confusing.
__________________
'Eyes that shine burning red, dreams of you all through my head.' - Harry Potter on Lord Voldemort, circa 1995.
DC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 01:49 PM   #82
ScottPress
Chief Warlock
The Horny Sovereign
 
ScottPress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Holy Moose Empire
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,489
High Score: 1,826
I have a question. I want to describe that a cloak looks... think cool and regal combined, on a person, but "cascade down his shoulders" doesn't seem to fit, especially since the person in question is Voldemort.

I'm looking for a word or a phrase that will fit in there, both the description and the character, but not something so obscure that readers will have to consult a thesaurus to understand what I wrote.

edit: Also, is it correct to write: "the ring sat on his finger".
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iron Rose in Discord
we gotta teach scott contouring
it's the only way he'll have any tits
Source ^

Last edited by ScottPress; 06-21-2014 at 01:51 PM.
ScottPress is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 02:02 PM   #83
Joe's Nemesis
Death Eater
High Score: 2,058
 
Joe's Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 944
High Score: 2,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC View Post
Wow, and I thought Physics was confusing.
At least in Physics you can test theories and do the math. In languages, what's wrong today may be absolutely half a century later. It's what happens when you have a written system of symbols and very few signs. The signifiers can change in many different ways. The pattern they take to signify and give meaning can therefore also change, based on language game. It's why "Ya'll head yonder to the park"; "You all head over to the park"; and "Yinz guys go to the park"; are all acceptable in different parts of the country. The people there have accepted the rules of the language game.

If someone didn't, then the game changes and hence, the signifiers begin to change, as well as the way they are used together. And that leads us to poststructuralism and the infamous antanaclasis:

Time (noun) flies (verb) like an arrow (adverb clause) = Time passes quickly.
Time (verb) flies (object) like an arrow (adverb clause) = Get out your stopwatch and time the speed of flies as you would time an arrow's flight.
Time flies (noun) like (verb) an arrow (object) = Time flies are fond of arrows (or at least of one particular arrow).*

And at this point, I realize I'm answering questions that no one was even close to asking.

*copied from here.

---------- Post automerged at 11:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Press View Post
I have a question. I want to describe that a cloak looks... think cool and regal combined, on a person, but "cascade down his shoulders" doesn't seem to fit, especially since the person in question is Voldemort.

I'm looking for a word or a phrase that will fit in there, both the description and the character, but not something so obscure that readers will have to consult a thesaurus to understand what I wrote.

edit: Also, is it correct to write: "the ring sat on his finger".
No, it's: "The ring sat on my finger."

And if you're asking about "sat," it's understandable, but not the best verb IMO.
__________________
I've thrown [the ancient story of] Bel and the Dragon on as well; it looks short... and idolatrous dragons still almost count as dragons
~Marsupial
Joe's Nemesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 02:14 PM   #84
wordhammer
Chief Warlock
 
wordhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the wood room, somewhere flat
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,572
DLP Supporter Donor Star
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Press View Post
I have a question. I want to describe that a cloak looks... think cool and regal combined, on a person, but "cascade down his shoulders" doesn't seem to fit, especially since the person in question is Voldemort.

I'm looking for a word or a phrase that will fit in there, both the description and the character, but not something so obscure that readers will have to consult a thesaurus to understand what I wrote.

edit: Also, is it correct to write: "the ring sat on his finger".
Taking this more from the poetry perspective than just grammar:

In both cases you're ascribing activity to inanimate objects... unless they actually are animated, or the person is describing those objects as if they represented animate things.

If Voldemort was in motion, or just in the process of putting on the cloak, it might move in a cascade from his shoulders. Else it drapes or hangs. It might help to consider whose viewpoint your coming from, as Harry might not recognize just how the cape makes him look but feels intimidated by the effect.

If Harry was in the process of considering betraying the vows that the ring represents, maybe he'd feel like the weight was more prominent than a ring normally is, and it was 'sitting' on his finger almost in reminder of the vow.

If it's loose, a ring hangs. If it's tight it squeezes. If it fits correctly, like any other well-fitting clothing, it slips into place to become part of the whole.
__________________
Join the DLP C2. It only hurts if you flinch.
wordhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Thumbs Up 1 Thumb Up
Old 06-21-2014, 02:31 PM   #85
Taure
Death Eater
Magical Cores Are Real
 
Taure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Gender: Male
Posts: 921
DLP Supporter Donor Star
High Score: 13,152
I think we're overcomplicating it. I think the phrase "which one" in particular is causing problems. Let's simplify then return to the original sentence step by step.

Draco Malfoy walks along and points out to a friend:

He is Potter

Subject: He
Verb: is
Predicate nominative: Potter

Direct subject question: "Who is he?" (Potter)
Indirect question: "Can I ask you who he is?" (Potter)
I have no idea who he is.

Do we agree that this is all correct? That "I have no idea who is he" is an incorrect form?

I'm struggling to pin down why it is incorrect -- there are several competing ideas, and I'm not sure which one is right -- but I think everyone would agree that it's incorrect. The most obvious answer for why it's incorrect would be a word order issue: subject only goes after verb in a question with "to be", and this is not a question but an affirmation.

Now, let's take a step closer to what we've been discussing. We should be able to just replace "who" with "which one". They're both relative pronouns.

He is Potter

Subject: "He"
Verb: is
Predicate nominative: Potter

Direct question: "Which one is he?" (Potter)
Indirect question: "Can I ask you which one he is?" (Potter)
I have no idea which one he is.

Again, this seems all correct. We wouldn't say "I have no idea which one is he", for the same reason as the first example. "Which one" seems a bit strange, but that's just because the situations in which these sentences could be said are more limited than the "who" example.

Now we can take another step towards our goal. "He" is a pronoun, and we can replace it with the proper noun to which it refers: Harry Potter. To avoid the confusion of using the same name twice, let's use his forename.

Harry is Potter.

Subject: Harry
Verb: is
Predicate nominative: Potter

Direct question: "Which one is Harry?" (Potter)
Indirect question: "Can I ask you which one Harry is?" (Potter)
I have no idea which one Harry is.

This must be correct given that all we've done is replace a pronoun with a proper noun, which you can do.

Now we change the setting and tense to match the original sentence.

I have no idea which one Harry is.
Shift into the past:
I had no idea which one Harry was.
Shift to third person:
He had no idea which one Harry was.

Ta-da! We have arrived at our correct form, step by step. I'm convinced that this is all correct. I'm not 100% why it's correct, but I'm sure that it is XD As I said above, I'm tempted to just say it's a question vs. affirmation word order issue.
__________________

HPATTGH: 1/35 Complete

Last edited by Taure; 06-21-2014 at 02:35 PM.
Taure is offline   Reply With Quote
Thumbs Up 1 Thumb Up
Old 06-21-2014, 03:02 PM   #86
DC
Seventh Year
 
DC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by E. C. Scrubb View Post
text
I'll just back away now and go write a fic about HeirofMerlin!Harry who has a soul bond with Ginerva, indulges in buttsecks with Malfoy and occasionally goes by the name of Vampire. And remembers who Griphook is.
__________________
'Eyes that shine burning red, dreams of you all through my head.' - Harry Potter on Lord Voldemort, circa 1995.
DC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 03:06 PM   #87
Joe's Nemesis
Death Eater
High Score: 2,058
 
Joe's Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 944
High Score: 2,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taure View Post
snip
Except that now, you have two nomitives and a verb, with out any accusative to receive the action (or, in this case, equalization).

Even though "Harry" is a predicate nominative, it's still taking up the role of the predicate, and predicates, by definition in English, come after the verb (unless you're going for prosaic or difficult writing, or want to sound like Yoda).

To your argument,
Quote:
I have no idea who he is.
Is correct, because he, in this case, is now being used as the nominative in a defining clause. What we've done is dropped the rest of the sentence and shoved the meaning all into "is." The full sentence should be, "I have no idea who he is defined to be."

Note that there is an infinitive at the end, and that's the key. We've taken the present tense "is" and used it as a quasi-infinitive to contain the rest of the unspoken sentence.

So, going back to "Which one Harry was/was Harry": "which one" does not signify a defining clause. Rather, it is choosing, so the above sentence cannot be equated to it.

At least . . . that's how I see it now. To be honest, I've changed my mind and then changed it back again on this issue about three times.
__________________
I've thrown [the ancient story of] Bel and the Dragon on as well; it looks short... and idolatrous dragons still almost count as dragons
~Marsupial
Joe's Nemesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 03:15 PM   #88
Taure
Death Eater
Magical Cores Are Real
 
Taure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Gender: Male
Posts: 921
DLP Supporter Donor Star
High Score: 13,152
Yeah, we've been debating it on IRC and have basically come to a point where we've decided there's no particular clear answer. Grammatical rules are artificial constructs and there are bound to be conflicts and ambiguities. The fact that identity statements can be reversed is making the issue stupidly complex.

And anyway, common use probably says that both are correct.

XD
__________________

HPATTGH: 1/35 Complete
Taure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 03:19 PM   #89
ScottPress
Chief Warlock
The Horny Sovereign
 
ScottPress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Holy Moose Empire
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,489
High Score: 1,826
I just came to this thread for some advice. Thanks btw, wordhammer.

Way to make me feel uneducated, guys.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iron Rose in Discord
we gotta teach scott contouring
it's the only way he'll have any tits
Source ^
ScottPress is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 03:24 PM   #90
Joe's Nemesis
Death Eater
High Score: 2,058
 
Joe's Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 944
High Score: 2,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taure View Post
Yeah, we've been debating it on IRC and have basically come to a point where we've decided there's no particular clear answer. Grammatical rules are artificial constructs and there are bound to be conflicts and ambiguities. The fact that identity statements can be reversed is making the issue stupidly complex.

And anyway, common use probably says that both are correct.

XD
I think you're right. Actually, I came to the exact same conclusion as I was heating up my lunch. Saturday morning and I'm debating English grammar. I need a life.
__________________
I've thrown [the ancient story of] Bel and the Dragon on as well; it looks short... and idolatrous dragons still almost count as dragons
~Marsupial
Joe's Nemesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 03:33 PM   #91
Sesc
Moderator
Slytherin at Heart
 
Sesc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hbg., Germany
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,966
As I said, the way I see it, it depends on what question you ask, and what the original sentence was. To make the above example comparable, you'd have to ask "Who is Potter" on the sentence "He is Potter".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesc View Post
He had no idea which one was Harry.
vs.
He had no idea which one Harry was.

is the difference of whether the answer to that indirect question is 'That one was Harry', or 'Harry was that one'.
In this case, "He wondered which one was Harry" comes from asking "Which one is Harry?" on "That one is Harry", whereas "He wondered which one Harry was" comes from asking "Which one is Harry?" on "Harry is that one".

In both sentences, the structure is Subject-Verb-Subject complement. But since the words are flipped around, if you keep asking "Which one is Harry?", first "which one" fills in for the subject ("That one is Harry"), and then it does not ("Harry is that one"). Thus, going strictly by the inversion rules, the first isn't inverted, and the second one is.

And if you start with the indirect questions, since you can't tell without knowing the original sentence in which order the words were, both are possible, but perhaps not sounding great -- at least that's what I figured after doing some googling.
__________________
She shuddered, even as we were descending, but when we dismounted, there was no sadness, no grief. Her ice blue eyes burned in boundless fury, a look so piercing it went clean through me. It was simultaneously the most beautiful and most terrifying thing I had ever seen on her face.

“Someone is going to pay.”

Kairos

________________________________
FF.net :: By That Last Candle's Light :: The French Affair :: Unatoned


I heard that you like the bad girls, honey,
Is that true?
Sesc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 05:45 PM   #92
Joe's Nemesis
Death Eater
High Score: 2,058
 
Joe's Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 944
High Score: 2,058
The saddest thing about this entire discussion, in the end, at least for my fic, it was pointless.

I replaced the entire line with one word. "Confusion!" Sigh.
__________________
I've thrown [the ancient story of] Bel and the Dragon on as well; it looks short... and idolatrous dragons still almost count as dragons
~Marsupial
Joe's Nemesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Thumbs Up 2 thumbs up
Old 07-12-2014, 02:28 PM   #93
Joe's Nemesis
Death Eater
High Score: 2,058
 
Joe's Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 944
High Score: 2,058
Should the following be in quotes like I have it?
Quote:
She was trying hard to keep up appearances, but empty egg-shells crack at the slightest pressure.

As it turned out, Pansy didn’t know much. The other witch had come to her for help. “Find Potter,” she had asked.
The reason I'm questioning is because it's a perfect past tense, placed in the beginning of a short "tell" section (Transition). So it's a summary of direct speech, but it's also what she said.
__________________
I've thrown [the ancient story of] Bel and the Dragon on as well; it looks short... and idolatrous dragons still almost count as dragons
~Marsupial
Joe's Nemesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2014, 07:44 PM   #94
Uncle Stojil
Auror
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 654
If it's also what she said, then you can also put it in quotes. If it's also a summary, then you can also not make it direct speech. So if it's both, you can use both (but it looks better as a quote, imo).

One thing, though. "Find Potter" isn't a question, so you might as well change "she had asked" into "she had said/ordered/whatever", no?
Uncle Stojil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 10:14 PM   #95
Joe's Nemesis
Death Eater
High Score: 2,058
 
Joe's Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 944
High Score: 2,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Stojil View Post
If it's also what she said, then you can also put it in quotes. If it's also a summary, then you can also not make it direct speech. So if it's both, you can use both (but it looks better as a quote, imo).

One thing, though. "Find Potter" isn't a question, so you might as well change "she had asked" into "she had said/ordered/whatever", no?
Thanks. I'll have to give it some more thought and see which way I want to go with it.

As for it being a question, it's more a matter of inflection, which I fully admit, doesn't always come through while reading (hence, the tag). I know it's different depending on which type of English a person speaks, but the way I learned it, inflecting the voice up at the end of a sentence means it's a question, even if it's given in a statement form.

Which leads me to ask . . . is it mainly American English that inflects upward for questions?
__________________
I've thrown [the ancient story of] Bel and the Dragon on as well; it looks short... and idolatrous dragons still almost count as dragons
~Marsupial
Joe's Nemesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 02:32 AM   #96
Eilyfe
Order Member
 
Eilyfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 898
German and French does too, as does British English I believe. In writing, inflection of the voice is mainly shown by the question mark. When I read a sentence and there's a '?' at the end of a sentence, I automatically inflect upward.

So, what about: "Find Potter?" she had asked.

Or maybe you could to leave out the quotation marks and write it like this: 'As it turned out, Pansy didn’t know much. The other witch had come to her for help, and had asked to find Potter.'
__________________
"Rise like lions after slumber
in unvanquishable number;
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many, they are few."

Eilyfe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2017, 05:00 PM   #97
CheddarTrek
Moderator
Set Phasers to Melt
 
CheddarTrek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mississippi
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,949
DLP Supporter Donor Star
I'm going to bump this, because I'm not sure where else to ask my questions. For those that have forgotten or are just now popping in...
This thread was designed for minor brainstorming questions, essentially. Need to figure out something for a fanfic, but it's simple enough that you don't want a full thread for it? Ask in this thread, etc.

Similar threads include: RL Questions and HP Canon Questions.
So, my question... I don't want to go into all the backstory, but I swear that there used to be a generic humorous term for the "fifth house" that so many shitty fanfiction stories add. You know, it's usually the house of Merlin, or all four founders, or something else ridiculous to make Harry special. What's the generic term we use to make fun of said fifth house?

I thought that the generic, in-use term was Sparklepony. I've thought this for years. If you're talking about a fic that does a shit job of adding a fifth house for special snowflakes, you just called it Sparklepony and moved on. Saves time from having to explain the concept in a review.

Except now I can't find evidence of that. Did I make it up? Was it something that might have only been used once, but I saw it and assumed it was widespread?

I'm trying to use the term to make a joke, but if it's not widespread among fanfiction readers then it will fall flat. In which case I'll use something else.
__________________
Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. But I rather believe than time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important how we lived. After all, Number One, we're only mortal.
~Jean-Luc Picard

CheddarTrek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2017, 05:17 PM   #98
BTT
Unspeakable
 
BTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Cyber City Oedo
Gender: Male
Posts: 760
IIRC it's Sparklypoo, not Sparklepony.
BTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Thumbs Up 1 Thumb Up
Old 03-04-2017, 05:18 PM   #99
Jon
Administrator
The Ḑ͉͙̫̑̂ͮ̎̍͒̽̉̆̀ͅȇ̱̯̘̖̾͐͐͂͢m̴̢͙̟̤̤̝̍ͫ͂̏̒́͘o̒n
 
Jon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,151
Send a message via Skype™ to Jon
@CheddarTrek this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fanon/HarryPotter
House Sparklypoo - The fifth House where Mary Sues belong. Showed up in a one-shot Fan Web Comic and the name stuck. On Livejournal, user Pottersues came up with three more Houses for different types of Sue: Bitchiwitch (Jerk Sue), Tootsitramp (slutty Sue) and Qanonreip (Sues that ignore Canon depictions of character, and often add random elements from other fantasy series - "ooh, it's Professor Legolas, isn't he cute?").
__________________
FFN Profile || WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB || Patronus

"Jon's fics are kinda like children in a way.
Bright, pretty, smart—children that any father would kill to have.
And he just tells them he needs to buy a pack of cigarettes."

—Lungs, 2015
Jon is offline   Reply With Quote
Thumbs Up 2 thumbs up
Old 03-04-2017, 05:19 PM   #100
CheddarTrek
Moderator
Set Phasers to Melt
 
CheddarTrek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mississippi
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,949
DLP Supporter Donor Star
Perfect - Sparklypoo. That's close enough that's got to be it - I must have altered it in my head to something that sounded just slightly less ridiculous. Thanks guys!
__________________
Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. But I rather believe than time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important how we lived. After all, Number One, we're only mortal.
~Jean-Luc Picard

CheddarTrek is offline   Reply With Quote


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RL Questions that don't deserve their own thread CheddarTrek Real Life Discussion 1441 07-12-2017 04:59 PM
Questions that don't deserve their own thread Glimmervoid The Dresden Files 416 11-02-2016 04:35 PM
Questions that don't deserve their own thread. Quick Ben FanFic Discussion 4700 10-22-2014 04:38 PM
Another bloody HP Fanfic cliche thread... LT2000 General Discussion 70 01-06-2007 12:28 PM
HP Fanfic cliche rant thread v5.1 Dark Lord Rostam General Discussion 404 07-03-2006 01:02 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2005 - 2016 DLP Group. All rights reserved.
No personal intellectual property on this site may be used without the credit and express permission of the respective authors.