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Old 05-21-2017, 09:12 PM   #1561
vlad
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Originally Posted by Sataniel View Post
Dorea and Charlus appeared on The Black Family Tree which Rowling had drawn for charity auction. They clearly weren't intende to be Harry's grandparents (ages didn't match, she would be blasted off for helping Sirius and Sirius would mention her in OoTP). Fleamont is a canon name of Harry's grandfather.

While all this is true, I don't think it was at all clear at the time what Rowling intended: Pollux Black married Irma Crabbe and had a daughter (Walburga) by the time he was 13. Seems a bit much. I'm fairly certain Rowling herself said that her math sucks and should be considered 'rough'. So I don't think it was an unreasonable fanon jump that Charlus Potter - Dorea Black having 'one son' couldn't have been James, especially since we knew that they had James 'late in life' which would explain the generation gap.

This is one of the few moments where fanon got it wrong, but the assumption was completely reasonable.
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:43 PM   #1562
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Pretty sure this has probably been discussed before, so no need for a separate thread, but I was wondering: is it possible that Dumbledore could have asked/coerced Petunia not to bring up the magical world during Harry's youth?

Like Dumbledore shows up and says accept the boy into your home and you will be protected as long as he calls the place his residence - however, my one request is that he be kept as far away from magic as possible so that he is truly protected for those wizards who still wish him harm (or to manipulate him/profit from his association, etc).

In other words, is it possible that Dumbledore manipulated Petunia into keeping all knowledge of magic out of young Harry's head (until the time is right)? I kind of like the idea that he had the best of intentions in isolating Harry, but the revelation that Petunia's sister had died at the hands of the world's most dangerous dark wizard drives her to take "MAGIC DOESN'T EXIST" to the extreme (out of fear of her family being hurt again).

Sounds plausible to me, but I'm looking for something in the books that jives with the idea.
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:59 PM   #1563
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Originally Posted by Averis View Post
Pretty sure this has probably been discussed before, so no need for a separate thread, but I was wondering: is it possible that Dumbledore could have asked/coerced Petunia not to bring up the magical world during Harry's youth?

Like Dumbledore shows up and says accept the boy into your home and you will be protected as long as he calls the place his residence - however, my one request is that he be kept as far away from magic as possible so that he is truly protected for those wizards who still wish him harm (or to manipulate him/profit from his association, etc).

In other words, is it possible that Dumbledore manipulated Petunia into keeping all knowledge of magic out of young Harry's head (until the time is right)? I kind of like the idea that he had the best of intentions in isolating Harry, but the revelation that Petunia's sister had died at the hands of the world's most dangerous dark wizard drives her to take "MAGIC DOESN'T EXIST" to the extreme (out of fear of her family being hurt again).

Sounds plausible to me, but I'm looking for something in the books that jives with the idea.
Seems very unlikely, Petunia herself hates magic and everything associated with it.

Not only was she extremely jealous of Lily being magical and her not being able to go to Hogwarts, she wrote a letter to Dumbledore as a child asking if she could go there herself and was furious and acted as if magic was freakish and disgusting because she could not be part of this world.

She also atleast perceived as if her parents were favoring Lily more because she was magical and therefore special.

It is also clear that in DH that she still felt some love for Lily and believes that if Lily wasn't magical they would not have literally lived in different worlds and became so seperated but also makes magical society responsible for her death.

So no Petunia herself despises the magical world and would not voluntarily ever speak about it if she didn't have to.

I think it would be far more likely that if Dumbledore wanted Petunia to tell Harry about magic he would need to coere/pay her instead of the other way.

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Old 05-24-2017, 01:11 PM   #1564
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If Harry was raised in isolation from the wizarding world by muggles why would they bother trying to explain magic to him until he gets his Hogwarts letter? Imagine explaining a secret of that magnitude to a child less that 11 and expect them to keep it a secret. Wouldn't work. Most people avoid difficult conversations. Let alone conversations with little mini people who don't need to know things. Like where babies come from. Or magic. I guess Dumbledore would assume whatever they could tell him could do little damage and why bother trying to censor them? Or why leave a letter if he was going to talk to them...

You're driving into Bumbledork territory, meethinks.

Edit: Goddamn it Kira! That's twice now! This is why I don't post... you glorious bastard

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Old 05-24-2017, 01:38 PM   #1565
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If Harry was raised in isolation from the wizarding world by muggles why would they bother trying to explain magic to him until he gets his Hogwarts letter? Imagine explaining a secret of that magnitude to a child less that 11 and expect them to keep it a secret. Wouldn't work. Most people avoid difficult conversations. Let alone conversations with little mini people who don't need to know things. Like where babies come from. Or magic. I guess Dumbledore would assume whatever they could tell him could do little damage and why bother trying to censor them? Or why leave a letter if he was going to talk to them...

You're driving into Bumbledork territory, meethinks.

Edit: Goddamn it Kira! That's twice now! This is why I don't post... you glorious bastard
Haha sorry, this time we atleast wrote something different

Besides this isn't taking into account what a cunt she is, she told him or atleast didn't contradict Vernon that his parents were good for nothing drunks who got themselves killed just to make Harry feel bad.

She could atleast said that they had a stroke or something she is a bitter piece of work who would not do something to make him feel special or happy.

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Old 05-31-2017, 11:57 AM   #1566
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The HP Wikia claims that several students were petrified in 1943 before Myrtle was killed. But it doesn't give a specific citation for that claim and I can't find where this is mentioned in the CoS ebook (UK edition). Is the claim supported by the US edition or movie? I had been under the impression Myrtle was the first and only victim in 1943.
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:13 PM   #1567
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The HP Wikia claims that several students were petrified in 1943 before Myrtle was killed. But it doesn't give a specific citation for that claim and I can't find where this is mentioned in the CoS ebook (UK edition). Is the claim supported by the US edition or movie? I had been under the impression Myrtle was the first and only victim in 1943.
The diary says so when Harry writes in it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoS Ch.13
In my fifth year, the Chamber was opened and the monster attacked several students, finally killing one.
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:14 PM   #1568
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Another prime example of the wiki's uselessness. No, I don't know anything about petrified students the first time around either. If the wiki knows better, it would be nice to have a source -- as it is, I'd put money on this being made-up; it wouldn't be the first time.

Edit: Right, it says that, but where's the petrification? Given that the petrifications in CoS where the result of ridiculous bits of luck (water, camera, ghost in-between), I find it hard to believe that the same happened 50 years ago. And in any case, hard-and-fast claiming they were petriefied when that is at most one possible reading is simply bad and opinionated article writing.
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:23 PM   #1569
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I suspected it was something like that. Thanks!
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:14 PM   #1570
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True, it doesn't say anything explicit about a petrification, but it's the only result we know of after a Basilisk attack (when the victim survives anyway), so it's a reasonable conclusion, I think. Too bad the wiki never makes a difference between real facts, logical deductions and far-fetched assumptions.
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:21 PM   #1571
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I suppose getting slapped by the basilisk's tail could be another possible injury. Since getting bit means death as well.
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:55 PM   #1572
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Though that would make blaming Hagrid for the attacks even more stupid: students are injured by being slapped around by a huge monster - blame the kid with a spider.
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:30 PM   #1573
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The Basilisk is a huge-ass snake with a ton of pointy teeth. For all I know, it bit off legs or arms -- and that would fit reasonably well with a monster spider that bites as well.

But right, the point is that any one sentence in the wiki can be everything from a fact to an assumption to made-up nonsense, hence why it's not helpful if you want to have a quick fact check.
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Old 06-07-2017, 05:51 PM   #1574
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The fact that all of these victims were totally unable to say "I got hyperfanged/tail whipped/headbutted/some other pokemon attack/etc. by a GIANT SNAKE and totally NOT a giant spider -- snakes and spiders both being most easily identified by their number of legs, of course" seems to indicate that the other victims were in some way incapacitated beyond the ability to speak (petrified). Of course it never explicitly says anything like that. Also, it's rather difficult to imagine that the series of ridiculous events that precipitated so many petrifications and no killings happened in 1943 as well. But given what it says in canon that's the reasonable conclusion.
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Old 06-07-2017, 06:28 PM   #1575
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It's probable that if the Basilisk attacked other students but did not kill them that it was petrification. But I'm with @Sesc that it still doesn't say that. It's the most likely reading of the text, but it's not fact.

Besides... consider the source. Tom Riddle's diary is the one that says it happened. Harry didn't check it independently from the quotes I've seen above.

He could have been outright lying, choosing to tell his story in such a way that it more closely matched what was happening to Harry in the present. This would make Harry more likely to believe him.

He could have been telling the truth that students were attacked, but Riddle could have been attacking them himself and making it look like a monster did it.

Or yeah... there could have been petrifications.

But when you can come up with more than one viable explanation for something it's bad form to put statements in a wiki that only ascribe to one of them.
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Old 06-13-2017, 01:16 AM   #1576
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Is there an base in canon for "I want to redeem everyone Dumbledore" ?
Trying to separate canon from fanon
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Old 06-13-2017, 05:42 AM   #1577
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I'd say that his attitude to Draco in HBP is a pretty good indicator of that - though obviously he doesn't believe in redeeming people like Voldemort.
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:34 AM   #1578
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So, I'm working on a chapter for a piece of fanfiction, and I've come across a scenario that that I don't know the answer to - can an animagus get bitten and become a werewolf? I feel like it's something that may have been answered in canon due to Lupin and the other Marauders, but I can't remember. All I remember is Sirius saying something about being able to keep a werewolf in check because of his animagus form's size.

So, if the answer is yes, what exactly happens on the full moon? Will an animagus who is currently in form still forcefully transform into a werewolf?
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:41 AM   #1579
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I don't have the books on hand, but iirc the answer is no. Animagi are immune from werewolf bites when transformed. It's safe to be around werewolves when transformed - the curse seems to affect only humans.
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:45 AM   #1580
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Alright, so what if you're already an animagus and not transformed when you get bitten?
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