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Old 06-18-2017, 04:52 PM   #61
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I think it's fair to make a distinction between terroristic threatening and terrorism. One, by all accounts, is not the other. In media exposure, if nothing else.

Despite the fact that we can't really define the later. I think @The Iron Rose is right when she says that it's a word whose meaning changes depending on the context/social consensus. Right now the consensus is that the word means 'Islamic violence against the west'.
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Old 06-18-2017, 05:07 PM   #62
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The terroristic threatening laws in Kentucky are all kinds of stupid. In the third degree, it requires only the threat to commit a crime likely to result in death, physical injury, or property damage (first and second degree are much more legit). This is a class A misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail.

I've got a bunch of clients who have this tacked on to more legitimate charges. It doesn't usually stick, just because most prosecutors realize it's kind of bullshit and are happy to amend it down to harassment or something along those lines. It's usually only charged by greener cops who tend to be a little overzealous in their citations.
And I wouldn't argue that at all. In fact, I absolutely agree it's all kinds of stupid. My only argument here is how the word, "Terrorism" and it's root is being expanded to the point of being almost meaningless. It's a buzzword, now.
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Old 06-18-2017, 05:11 PM   #63
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And I wouldn't argue that at all. In fact, I absolutely agree it's all kinds of stupid. My only argument here is how the word, "Terrorism" and it's root is being expanded to the point of being almost meaningless. It's a buzzword, now.
For the media, yes, it's a buzzword. I think we need to specify that.
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Old 06-18-2017, 05:35 PM   #64
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For the media, yes, it's a buzzword. I think we need to specify that.
Yes and no. It's more than just the media, because governments capitalize on it. Why do we have "terroristic threatening" laws? Because legislatures capitalized on the buzzword. Then, when local TV stations report on arrests and the charges that go along with them, "Terror" is reported along with it. Not as a buzzword, but as part of the everyday legal language. And, national governments take it and use it to pound all types of laws and spending though the legislature.

All of this goes back to my single point about the word getting spread so thin as to lose its meaning.
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:53 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Nemesis View Post
Yes and no. It's more than just the media, because governments capitalize on it. Why do we have "terroristic threatening" laws? Because legislatures capitalized on the buzzword. Then, when local TV stations report on arrests and the charges that go along with them, "Terror" is reported along with it. Not as a buzzword, but as part of the everyday legal language. And, national governments take it and use it to pound all types of laws and spending though the legislature.

All of this goes back to my single point about the word getting spread so thin as to lose its meaning.
Ok, but where are the examples of the word being used so often, for so many different things that it has become meaningless?

Literally the only way that it has been used by Western governments and media is to describe Islamic violence against the West. Turkey does not count in this case.

These laws you're describing exist, sure, but where is the widespread and ubiquitous coverage of their enforcement on a scale similar to my definition which would support your argument?
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:21 PM   #66
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Ok, but where are the examples of the word being used so often, for so many different things that it has become meaningless?

Literally the only way that it has been used by Western governments and media is to describe Islamic violence against the West. Turkey does not count in this case.

These laws you're describing exist, sure, but where is the widespread and ubiquitous coverage of their enforcement on a scale similar to my definition which would support your argument?
A simple Google search for the last month shows literally hundreds of articles of arrests.

And, that is only one element. My central point, as I keep saying, is that the word keeps getting stretched until it can apply to almost anything. The very fact these laws exist is not only support, but pretty much proof of my argument, at least here in the US.

But it isn't just that. It's how the word itself is used. Again, it is put out there as a buzzword. A word that by its very invokation, is meant to instill fear.

Such as here, and here.

I don't get why you're so hung up on "Westerners like to accuse only brown people of terrorism." Right now, in the West, the biggest terrorist attacks are Islamic adherents that have been radicalized attacking Western targets. So, of course that's going to be the loudest in the news. But, that does mean in the least that the root word, "Terror" and its different verbal and noun forms are not being used in a variety of ways by the media, the government, and by other entities to drive their own agendas, such as ratings, legislation, or to sway public opinion (as seen in the two link above).
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Old 06-18-2017, 10:44 PM   #67
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Ok, but where are the examples of the word being used so often, for so many different things that it has become meaningless?

Literally the only way that it has been used by Western governments and media is to describe Islamic violence against the West. Turkey does not count in this case.

These laws you're describing exist, sure, but where is the widespread and ubiquitous coverage of their enforcement on a scale similar to my definition which would support your argument?
Oh yeah. IRA and the Basques and FARCs and the Oklahoma bombers were never labeled terrorists.
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Old 06-18-2017, 10:56 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Nemesis View Post
A simple Google search for the last month shows literally hundreds of articles of arrests.

And, that is only one element. My central point, as I keep saying, is that the word keeps getting stretched until it can apply to almost anything. The very fact these laws exist is not only support, but pretty much proof of my argument, at least here in the US.

But it isn't just that. It's how the word itself is used. Again, it is put out there as a buzzword. A word that by its very invokation, is meant to instill fear.

Such as here, and here.

I don't get why you're so hung up on "Westerners like to accuse only brown people of terrorism." Right now, in the West, the biggest terrorist attacks are Islamic adherents that have been radicalized attacking Western targets. So, of course that's going to be the loudest in the news. But, that does mean in the least that the root word, "Terror" and its different verbal and noun forms are not being used in a variety of ways by the media, the government, and by other entities to drive their own agendas, such as ratings, legislation, or to sway public opinion (as seen in the two link above).
Fair enough, I guess how the usage of the term has shifted over the last few years in America hasn't really penetrated the international media. I actually just saw the fox news article calling the van that ran into Muslims a terror attack, and thought about this argument. :P

Honestly, I think we are actually arguing towards the same point, just from a different beginning. I definitely agree with you when you say that the word terrorism has become "used in a variety of ways by the media, the government, and by other entities to drive their own agendas, such as ratings, legislation, or to sway public opinion (as seen in the two link above)."


The point that I was trying to make, is that the media tends not to call events like the Charlestown shooting terrorism when they should be.

Happy to put this argument to bed now, as anything else would be quibbling over details.
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:14 AM   #69
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They are here, too. These are stupidly broad state laws.
If they have those laws, then why the heck there is Terroristic threat??

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Old 06-19-2017, 11:20 AM   #70
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If they have those laws, then why the heck there is Terroristic threat??

I'd hazard the guess that they were meant to cover things like making bomb threats, but were written over broadly and used too frequently.
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:44 AM   #71
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GOP data leak: https://gizmodo.com/gop-data-firm-ac...-ne-1796211612

Some very interesting data ended up in there.

Edit: Original (?) source: https://www.upguard.com/breaches/the-rnc-files

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Old 06-19-2017, 05:56 PM   #72
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I think it's fair to make a distinction between terroristic threatening and terrorism. One, by all accounts, is not the other. In media exposure, if nothing else.

Despite the fact that we can't really define the later. I think @The Iron Rose is right when she says that it's a word whose meaning changes depending on the context/social consensus. Right now the consensus is that the word means 'Islamic violence against the west'.
The recent attack on a mosque by a white guy has been universally referred to as a terrorist act.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:56 PM   #73
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Spicer's now out. I wonder who is stupid enough to take the job.

I don't really pity Spicer, he deserved what he got for selling out to Trump. But I just realized Trump could pick someone worse. No one with any intelligence will want the job, and Trump might find someone happy to take the job. I'd hate to see someone like Richard Spencer lead press briefings.
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:21 PM   #74
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GOP data leak: https://gizmodo.com/gop-data-firm-ac...-ne-1796211612

Some very interesting data ended up in there.

Edit: Original (?) source: https://www.upguard.com/breaches/the-rnc-files
This is actually fucking brilliant campaign strategy. The only thing they forgot to do was take the voter file down after the election was over.

EDIT: Also calling it here. Ossoff loses 49-51. There's no way his contact universe is large enough for the expected turnout.
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:46 PM   #75
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This is actually fucking brilliant campaign strategy. The only thing they forgot to do was take the voter file down after the election was over.
What? As in, can you elaborate on that?
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:17 AM   #76
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Okay, so say you want to coordinate with a group for TV ads, say a Super PAC. Technically, it's illegal for you to do so. The workaround is putting hours upon hours of b roll footage on your Youtube channel, and letting various people do what they will with the footage.

Now saw you leave your data open for a third party. You're not coordinating. You're just coordinating.
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Xiph0 What then?

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Old 06-20-2017, 12:21 AM   #77
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Sorta like when the Cruz campaign uploaded 12 hours of raw footage onto youtube for their PAC, yeah?

I also distinctly remember Martin O'Malley's campaign being really blatant about it too.

e: fuck you already referenced that
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:23 AM   #78
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Well damn. Turns out I am nowhere near cynical enough for politics. Reverse Hanlon's Razor I guess?
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:20 AM   #79
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I really wish I could say that this is in any way, shape, or form surprising.

But it really really isn't. It's just unusually brazen, really...
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:37 AM   #80
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Technically, it's illegal for you to do so.
I may be cynical, but I thought that was considered a technicality that wasn't enforced. Coordination is the norm, isn't it?
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