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Old 07-18-2017, 05:32 PM   #2361
Republic
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Tbh I don't think Arya will get to kill anyone else who matters. Don't think Arya will get the kill on Cercei, or UnGregor.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:49 PM   #2362
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Tbh I don't think Arya will get to kill anyone else who matters. Don't think Arya will get the kill on Cercei, or UnGregor.
I suspect she'll at least get a solid chance on Cersei, but something will happen to prevent it.

Jaime will probably end up doing the deed in a Kingslayer parallel near the end of the series. That or zombiebro will turn on her.
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Old 07-19-2017, 10:39 AM   #2363
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Thread title says WARNING SPOILERS so I'm not going to bother with spoiler tag.

I really liked the way S07E01 handled Jon and Sansa. There was some worry, at the end of S06, that Sansa was going to be played as too Machiavellian, with the possibility that she deliberately tried to get Jon killed by holding back on the information that reinforcements were on their way until he had already committed to battle. But this episode has firmly positioned Sansa as on Jon's side, just with different ideas of the best course of action.

On top of that, I liked the nuance to their disagreement. It's not like either of them was clearly in the right. Sansa's position was more ruthless and pragmatic in the short run, but Jon's position wasn't some idealistic fool's errand. In a feudal society, stripping bloodline (as opposed to an individual) of their lands and title was an extreme action known as attainder. Ultimately, most historical monarchs avoided following through with bills of attainder because it was such an extreme, tyrannical action that doing it too much would inevitably turn the powerful nobility against you. No noble will support a society where their dynasty is permanently precarious because the monarch can revoke it at any time. The only monarchs who successfully used attainder were those whose position was already absolutely secure like Henry VIII.

So really, Jon's position is the wiser one in the long run. His crown is nowhere near secure enough that he can rule as an absolute monarch, rearranging the property of his subjects at a whim.
That said, the show did set up a bit of a false dichotomy. There were plenty of ways to punish the Umbers and Karstarks that weren't as extreme as attaining them. Let them keep the castle but take away some of it's supporting lands, or the ever-popular option of rearranging taxes so they have to pay more and the loyal lords pay less.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:40 AM   #2364
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~snip~
That's something to consider once the ice demons with zombie armies are dealt with.
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Old 07-19-2017, 10:52 PM   #2365
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That said, the show did set up a bit of a false dichotomy. There were plenty of ways to punish the Umbers and Karstarks that weren't as extreme as attaining them. Let them keep the castle but take away some of it's supporting lands, or the ever-popular option of rearranging taxes so they have to pay more and the loyal lords pay less.
I know tv shows has a far wider berth in including depth to stories, but if they start inserting scenes debating tax regulation I'd be damn well surprised.

As for the episode itself, managed to not even spoil the cameo in the days since release, quite proud of myself. Wasn't that bad, probably because I barely recognised him, ended up figuring it out via google afterwards.

Arya remains my favourite, yet remains a hypothetically OP part. The character development seems, as others have said, to lead to not hating everyone affiliated with her list. I'm expecting her to finish her list and then die as a result, having a faceless man just running around killing on command with no cost seems to reduce the Game to a fix-it-fic. If she ends up in domestic bliss with Gendry I'll kms.

Additionally, got to say I was glad I had finished eating prior to Samwells scene. I don't shy away from graphic scenes but that stuff actually made me queasy. Could've been less... explicit.
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Old Yesterday, 03:36 PM   #2366
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Part of me really hopes that Tyrion gets to be the one to finally deal with the mad queen. While some think Jaime will be the one, it might be tricky to properly choke her with just one hand.
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Old Yesterday, 05:04 PM   #2367
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Cersei has spent most of her life convinced that Tyrion is going to kill her (that part of the prophecy was in the show, right?), it makes much more sense for her character for her to have been worrying about the wrong brother the whole time. Anything other than Jaime killing her (and dying himself soon after) just seems weird to me.
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Old Yesterday, 05:31 PM   #2368
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It's rather obvious that Jaime is going to kill Cersei. Only question is if he makes it a mutual suicide, or just a regular murder. Show version is probably going to have a mutual suicide by wildfire (seems fitting), while book version is most likely going to have him choke her (either with his remaining hand, or by shoving his golden one into her throat).
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Old Yesterday, 08:54 PM   #2369
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Cersei has spent most of her life convinced that Tyrion is going to kill her (that part of the prophecy was in the show, right?), it makes much more sense for her character for her to have been worrying about the wrong brother the whole time. Anything other than Jaime killing her (and dying himself soon after) just seems weird to me.
The little brother murder prophecy isn't in the show, only the one about her marrying the king and her children dying.
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Old Yesterday, 09:08 PM   #2370
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Part of me really hopes that Tyrion gets to be the one to finally deal with the mad queen. While some think Jaime will be the one, it might be tricky to properly choke her with just one hand.
Jamie could always beat her to death with his golden hand, but I really hope it's Tyrion who gets to kill her.
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Old Today, 12:49 AM   #2371
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I'm predicting Cersei will kill Tyrion, making Jaime finally realize how fucking crazy she is and forcing him to once again stain his honor by killing the person he's supposed to protect.
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