Hybrid Conversion Kits

[Danjam]

http://www.forbesautos.com/news/feat...les-story.html

Soon drivers will be able to get at least double the gas mileage of a Toyota Prius hybrid, thanks to a spate of new aftermarket kits that convert any car into a plug-in electric vehicle. But they’ll have to pay upwards of $10,000 to do so. Auto manufacturers are at least a year or two away from launching the next generation of hybrids, called plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), that recharge by plugging into a wall outlet. But battery companies are ready to start selling aftermarket kits within the next few months that convert hybrids, and in some cases regular vehicles, into plug-in electric cars.
A123Systems, an automotive technology company and battery supplier based in Watertown, Mass., is now taking orders for its Hymotion L5 conversion kit, which turns a Toyota Prius into a plug-in electric car. The $10,000 kit, due this fall, works with Prius model years 2004 through 2008 and adds a special, range-extending lithium-ion battery to the Prius' existing drivetrain.
Using A123’s plug-in system, the Prius, which normally runs only short distances at slow speeds on electric power alone, will have added battery power to extend its electric-only range and boost gas mileage to more than 100 miles per gallon. The Prius normally gets an estimated 46 mpg in combined city/highway driving.
Even if electricity costs as much as 15 cents per kilowatt hour, fully charging the 5 kilowatt-hour battery to run up to 40 miles would cost less than a dollar.

In late August, Poulsen Hybrid, based in Shelton, Conn., and run by Ulrik Poulsen, CEO of Bridgeport Magnetics, plans to offer a $7,000 conversion kit that turns any conventional car into a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle by mounting small electric motors onto the rear wheels. The Poulsen system also uses a lithium-ion battery pack and will double a car's gas mileage, says Poulsen, the system's creator. The company hasn’t released data on how far the system will go on a single charge, but charging it would also cost less than a dollar, he says.


VS Composites' $4,000 Electrocharger, due in 2009, also works with any conventional car, including ones whose engines have a turbocharger or supercharger — good news for car enthusiasts, who seek out such engines for the added power and acceleration they bring. The Electrocharger improves fuel economy in city driving by almost 60 percent by replacing a vehicle’s alternator with an electric generator, says Michael Van Steenburg, of VS Composites, based in Selma, Texas. Although the Electrocharger will be cheaper upfront than the Poulsen plug-in hybrid system, it will cost from $3 to $5 to juice the Electrocharger for a 50-mile range. Any plug-in hybrid, whether created using an aftermarket conversion kit or built by a major automaker — like General Motors’ Saturn Vue Hybrid expected for 2009, and Chevrolet Volt expected in 2010 — would cost roughly 2 cents per mile to run, compared with about 10 cents per mile for a traditional car, says Philip Gott, director of automotive consulting at research firm Global Insight.
It would take 8 years to pay off the $10,000 premium of an electric system driving 40 miles a day and saving 8 cents per mile, Gott says, which is longer than most people want to own a car. "But people buy these things to make an environmental statement," he says.

One concern for the conversion kits is their reliability and whether they would void a vehicle’s original factory warranty. In this regard, plug-in hybrids built by automakers are a safer bet than conversion kits, Gott says. "Typically, kits don't have a national service and infrastructure."
Toyota, which has announced plans to bring plug-in electric vehicles to market by 2010, is skeptical of the conversion kits. "While A123's test results sound encouraging, we are still concerned that a conversion of this type may push some components beyond their design parameters or cause other parts or systems to fail," says Bill Kwong, a Toyota spokesperson. "We don't know if occupant safety may be compromised by the modifications."


Auto analyst Art Spinella, of CNW Marketing Research in Bandon, Ore., expects half of the aftermarket plug-in electric conversion kits will have problems. "And it's not so much the hardware that makes it expensive, it's the complexity,” he says. “We really don't know yet all the ramifications of plug-in hybrids. At this point, for the most part, plug-in hybrids are nothing more than a curiosity for most consumers." That said, Spinella expects the cost of plug-in hybrid technology, whether as part of aftermarket conversion kits or factory-original vehicles, to go down in a few years. "Look at the computer industry. Now you can get a computer for $349 that used to cost $3,000," he says. "Initially, the market is going to wind up being early adopters — people who will buy a plug-in conversion kit because it's the latest and greatest."
But whether you choose to buy a plug-in hybrid straight from an automaker in a couple of years or opt for a plug-in conversion kit this fall, certain benefits are guaranteed. "You're diverting your energy demand to that produced by a centralized facility monitored for emissions or performance, as opposed to a regular car that owners don't necessarily maintain as well," says Global Insight’s Gott. "The electric power grid's energy comes from coal, nuclear, wind, hydro and solar energy."
By relying on electricity from a power plant rather than gasoline from a pump, "within a more reasonable time frame, you will continue to be upgraded to the most modern fuel technologies," Gott says.

I don't know if any of you guys have heard of these, or if there has been a thread about these, but it seems like a decent idea. Basically, if you didn't read, they are kits that claim to be able to double the mileage of a car by turning it into a plug in electric. Apparently this works for hybrids and conventional cars. A lot of people are reluctant to get a hybrid due to the limited choice, so hopefully this will help.

They are a lot of money though, and I don't know how well they'll actually work in practice.

Thoughts?

[Midknight]

That is fucking AWSOME.

But here's the thing. That techonology didn't just suddenly develop, someone's been sitting on that forever and a day, lol. I love how Toyota's response was basically an obvious, don't believe that, continue giving us moar monies!

Maybe we'll get off the anal rape bandwagon and stop letting the oil companies rape us and this stuff will work.

I'm for one sick and tired of seeing single guys driving around in a 40,000 dollar truck that gets 10 mpg b/c it adds to their "image" (something actually told to me earlier when I asked my retarded coworker wtf he was bitching about his gas costs, why didnt he switch to something smaller).

I personally think anything below 20 mph should be freaking banned unless it's given a special exemption for a damned good reason. Look at the fucking new Chevy Silverado. 20 mpg highway, didn't lose any power or towing capacity, yet it gets 8 more mpg highway then my 2004 model. I refuse to believe that the car companies could do a shitload better.

And hell, you'd think right now, the way US car makers are loosing their ass to Toyota and various other imported cars, that the US ones would want to make drastic increases in their fuel usage to be seen as the better, cheaper choice, while still supporting the US economy.

[Samuel Black]

I agree. This is pretty fucking awesome.

[Anubis Rex]

It would take 8 years to pay off the $10,000 premium of an electric system

If you were buying new, it might be worth it; a decent car should last that long.
For those of us who can't afford new and buy used cars that won't last more than 4-5 years tops, its just not feasible. I would be glad to drive a car with one of these in it, but, until the price drops a bit, it's just not happening.

-

[Midknight]

Yeah the price is retarded to install it, but once it comes down it'll be nice to stick onto everything you can.

[Aurion]

Big Oil oughta be shitting themselves about this...

"OMG NOES OUR PROFITS!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111"

Toyota needs to STFU. The 2008 Prius is gay, they dropped the MPG after they got a "reserach grant" from one of the oil giants (can't remember which).

[Midknight]

Yeah I read about that. They claimed the old battery was not enviro friendly or some shit, new battery system doesn't help as much as the old one, so the mpg goes in the shitter

[Blaise]

Originally Posted by Midknight

Yeah I read about that. They claimed the old battery was not enviro friendly or some shit, new battery system doesn't help as much as the old one, so the mpg goes in the shitter

Lol yeah, the old batteries are a larger environmental threat than a fleet of semis emitting a cloud of smog. Lithium ions, like the ones used in the electric supercar, aren't feasible for a large market yet.

[Zombie]

So, through all of this, renewable engery is key, fuel need is reduced, less paying at the pump, alternative fuel source, fuel source, fuel source..

It all seems like a waiting game to me.

Why, with all of this innovative technology, has anyone not put a rush on this?

Back in the other thread, These Oil Prices, you see the articles that talk about using Algea farms as a renewable biofuel. The expectations on this, is that all that research will culminate in around a decade or so. Every number I've seen so far has indicated as such.

They need to expidite this on the fast track to the general public. Not give some bullshit response that, " Oh, it only costs 40,000$ at the moment, but, with better efficency, we foresee that this price will go down." How is the general public to use this, those who need it most, when the effin' prices are high.

I say start working on that shit now. Get it out there, so as to shut some people the fuck up. To me, this only gives people more reason to complain, when no one's doing nothing about it, other than sugar coating it with time related one liners.

I saw something about the conversion kits on the local news. This one guy that was doing them, was talking about how it would be harder to convert larger vehicals, with a price tag of 10-40K depending on vehicle, because of the time thats needed to work on them? I'm sick of hearing time numbers. I want results now. No more bullshit being fed to me by the news, or any other source. We have the technology, its not fargone to hope that they could do it within a much shorter amount of time, than they project.

If right now, bigger means better, but you get the shaft on the cost, wouldn't one suspect that maybe someone would get smart enough to start buying smaller, easily convertable vehicles?

Originally Posted by Midknight

I'm for one sick and tired of seeing single guys driving around in a 40,000 dollar truck that gets 10 mpg b/c it adds to their "image" (something actually told to me earlier when I asked my retarded coworker wtf he was bitching about his gas costs, why didnt he switch to something smaller).

You cockslapped them after they said that, right? Hopefully you did.

Seeing how you live in NC(lol, blaise, NC mention) with out higher cost of living, why is everyone worried about personal image? I live in some po'dunk town with people that drive H2's, and the local PTA advocate, while pushing for "Energy Convservation," herself, drives a new 2008, 4 door, SUV. All they can do is sit on their asses on the side of the streets, and at the local train-station, screaming about how everyone needs to be aware.

Then, later, they go home to their 4-story houses on the side of a giant fucking rock.

When our own advocates are dumbasses, I don't see much for the future of the rest of us.

Through it all, Big Oil needs to get a major, "Fuck you" from the people. Stop buying all these huge ass suv's, and get smart, economically.

I mean, its only their future, and their childrens futures that are being messed up right now. Why should they care? /sarcasm

Not only that.

When are the car companies going to start producing already converted cars that can run on Biodiseal?

Thats what I'm interested in. When are they going to help the public?

There's not a chance in hell that they will, as long as there is profit to be made.

This all seems like an uphill battle, and the people are being mowed down by the large companies with infinite pocketbooks.

[Xiph0]

Originally Posted by Midknight

<rant>.

Relevant pics to go with that.

[Solomon]

Originally Posted by Zombie

When are the car companies going to start producing already converted cars that can run on Biodiseal?

Thats what I'm interested in. When are they going to help the public?

As soon as they stop getting subsidized by the oil companies?

[Aurion]

Which means "never".