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Apparition - with or without a wand?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Agnostics Puppet, Sep 15, 2009.

  1. Agnostics Puppet

    Agnostics Puppet Professor

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    I need the expertise of those of you that know more than me.

    I had a discussion with a friend of mine about apparition, and it inevitably came down to whether or not a wizard or witch needed their wand to apparate.

    The only canon evidence I can think of for this is when Harry's wand broke in DH and Hermione side-alonged him away. But then again, its been so long since I read that book, I might be imagining things.

    It also might have been that Harry was so crushed by the loss of his wand, Hermione didnt want to risk Harry splinching.

    Any help?
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2009
  2. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    No wand. In HBP, the instruction goes like this:

    As there is no wand mentioned, I'll assume you don't need one. And indeed, all the instances I recall where someone "twirls his wand" behind his back or something to apparate are Fanon.

    Incidentally, that chapter also sheds some light onto the question we had some time ago -- what happens when you splinch:

    It's painful, but no big deal, doesn't bleed and can be reversed easily.
     
  3. Agnostics Puppet

    Agnostics Puppet Professor

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    Excellent. Thanks much!
     
  4. Novera

    Novera Seventh Year

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    I thought there was a something mentioning apperating using a wand to apperate when they were fleeing from the death eaters after Bill's wedding.
     
  5. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Sesc is deliberately ignoring DH. When the trio is captured at Malfoy manor Ron comments that he can't apparate because he doesn't have his wand. This seems to be pretty stong evidence that the wand is involved.

    My personal theory is that you merely need the wand on your person, but you don't actually actively use it (as in HBP lessons it isn't mentioned). We know from OotP that you can use your wand for magic without it being in your hand (Harry's Lumos).
     
  6. Trojan Knight

    Trojan Knight Third Year

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    I think Sesc is right on this one. Ron might have mentioned it for anything Taure. They were running for their lives and hiding(involved in a secret hunt of Horcruxes) so he might have thought that they would need a wand if they are to stay alive. Wandering without a wand amidst a war is not a fascinating thing it seems.

    Also note that wands are of major importance in wizard/witch's life(With Bellatrix's stolen wand they opened her vault). As you could see there are countless reasons for why Luna said so.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  7. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Ouch >_>

    I usually am, but in this case, I honestly didn't remember that, Taure. Even now, I had to look it up -- was this what you meant?

    That seems quite indecisive -- you can't tell if one generally can't apparate without a wand, he tries it anyway in desperation and naturally fails, or if he tries to apparate, despite this meaning he'll leave the wand behind, and fails because the cellar is escape-proof. And at the attack on the wedding, I didn't find any mentions of wands.

    In any case though, it wouldn't surprise me if Rowling had them needing a wand in DH -- it'd be just another thing she retconned or at least didn't think through before. Because let's face it, if she's already writing about apparition-lessons and introduces a ministry-approved teacher, you can and will assume that the process is described there accurately, and isn't missing some important bit of info like, oh, and you need to have your wands.


    Also -- on a completely unrelated note; in the same chapter I found

    And then I remembered how she died and felt like crying ;_;
     
  8. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I was actually refering to the bit you tactically didn't quote :p

    Note how it was worth mentioning that he was trying without a wand - indicating that this is normally not the case. And then the next sentence it is said that it is fruitless.
     
  9. Trojan Knight

    Trojan Knight Third Year

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    Now try this:
    Ron was trying to disapparate, without (even) a wand.
     
  10. Kang

    Kang Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    Anti-Disapparation ward? A fairly simple solution.
     
  11. Bikiluf

    Bikiluf Seventh Year

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    ^^ It would be a really bad cell if you could apparate in or out. The anti-disapparation jinx would stop any apparation with or without wands. I always assumed Ron needed a wand to overcome the wards or something.
     
  12. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    If this were the case then he would be unable to apparate whether he had his wand or not; there would be no reason to explicitly state that he was trying to apparate without a wand.
     
  13. Nemrut

    Nemrut The Black Mage ~ Prestige ~

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    Maybe the wand is like the extra wheels for the bike you had when you were still inexperienced. You can do it without a wand but it is easier with one.
     
  14. Agnostics Puppet

    Agnostics Puppet Professor

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    See? THIS is why Im confused. On the one hand, nothing during the apparition lessons hints toward needing a wand, but then in Deathly Hallows, we see that you may need one!

    *is frustrated*

    Should I just go with artistic license on this one?
     
  15. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    @Taure: The other explanation of that scene was that he simply didn't want to leave the wand behind, but eventually tried apparating away anyway -- without [taking] it [with him].

    Turning your argument on the wards around; the explicit mention that the cellar is "escape-proof" in this context is suggesting that Luna talks about something that blocks his attempts at apparition, if it was the missing wand, it wouldn't matter whether or not the cellar was special in some way -- his inability to escape would have nothing to do with the cellar.


    @AP: Your call, entirely. If you're asking me, simply ignore DH as Canon for all things magic related and watch all your problems vanish. Taure will try come up with a synthesis like needing the wand in your pocket without actually using it, others might say something else altogether.

    So just do what fits in your plot better. If Rowling could, so can you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  16. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I actually agree with Sesc when it comes to fanfic purposes. I always write apparation as wandless, as I prefer it that way.

    However, I do still think that that section of DH means you need a wand. If I said something like "Jim was trying to drive without his glasses" I think we'd all assume that Jim normally uses his glasses to drive.
     
  17. Sten

    Sten Guest

    I don't remember if it was Arthur or Persy Weasley, but one of them used a wand in GoF to apparate. It was also mentioned that Arthur raised his wand in preparation to apparate.

    May have something to do with the distance. When they practiced apparition in Hogwarts they could see where they were going. Pretty much any other time they use apparition to appear miles away from their starting point.

    Just throwing that little info in there. You seem to focus too much on the last two books. Ignoring the previous ones.
     
  18. Oz

    Oz For Zombie. Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Call JKR and ask her. She'll know the answer. Probably.
     
  19. Redeye

    Redeye Penultimate Lurker DLP Supporter

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    We can only hope, though I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't have a conclusive answer.
     
  20. Bikiluf

    Bikiluf Seventh Year

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    When did she ever have a conclusive answer? Not Never!
     
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