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DLP Survey 2017

Discussion in 'Real Life Discussion' started by Taure, Jul 1, 2017.

  1. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    To clarify, the question is "what industry are you in?" not "what is your profession?". So, for example, if you are a programmer for a bank, you would put "banking and finance".
     
  2. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    Sounds like a good bit of advice that could've been a clarification under the question, like "assume no traitors" with the muggle vs wizard question.

    I was super confused for a second on the nationality question, thinking we had a fuckton of people from Afghanistan. US and Afghanistan colors are very similar.

    Also, who are the four, hmm people, who deny man-made climate change?
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  3. Hush

    Hush Sixth Year

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    Why do you want to shame people for having their own beliefs?
     
  4. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    I normally don't do it, but man-made climate change is just one of those things that I can't understand how people keep denying.
     
  5. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman Prestige DLP Supporter

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    If their beliefs are stupid of course I'll shame them. Everyone is welcome to have whatever belief they want, but no one is immune to criticism for believing stupid things.
     
  6. Hush

    Hush Sixth Year

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    The question isn't about denying climate change but rather it's cause. There's actually not any sort of definitive proof either way. We have no real records that can accurately determine whether or not the climate oscillates over extended periods of time as we haven't had precise measurements of temperature for all that long. Or at least we don't have records of it, if we did they've been lost to time.

    While it's great to be cautious about carbon footprints and move away from fossil fuels, I also think that it's the height of arrogant narcissism to think that humans will be able to destroy the planet. Anyway, this whole save the planet is more of a deceitful way of saying that we want to save ourselves. We'll kill ourselves before the planet comes under a true threat.

    It's very much a question that I sit on the fence on.

    ---------- Post automerged 3rd Jul 2017 at 00:00 ---------- Previous post was 2nd Jul 2017 at 23:48 ----------

    Shaming and criticising are two very different things. I think it's a terrible first reaction to have, rather than counterproductively shaming someone, maybe engage with them in a discussion. They might just surprise you.
     
  7. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Surprise me? If they are denying that man made climate change exists then I genuinely can't imagine them saying anything worth listening to on the subject.
     
  8. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    ...Uh, yes, there is. Ave you not heard of ice cores?

    Fortunately for everyone who's not an idiot, there are naturally occurring records that we have easy access to. Ice cores. Tree rings. Sedement.

    So your point is that extinction does matter?
     
  9. Invictus

    Invictus Heir

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    Release 20 thousand nukes all over the planet. Wait. See the result from a space ship. I will criticise people who actually have a leg to stand for instead of just closing their eyes to consequences of human beings actions, like people who don't believe in overfishing or hunting to Extinction.
     
  10. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    Hush

    Denying climate change and denying man-made climate change are two different things. If you deny the first, then you must also deny the second and you're probably beyond hope to stop holding to this stupid belief (especially great are climate change deniers who accept that ice ages are a thing).

    If you deny the second, then I might suggest that you google climate research and read a bit, and then ask you if the overwhelming buttload of science still doesn't convince you. Because really, anthropogenic climate change isn't up for discussion anymore and hasn't been for decades. Of course periodic climate changes occur. We know this from digging up frozen mammoths and stuff. The problem is that human industry is accelerating that change and it will fuck us up. Most of human population lives on the coast. When the Atlantic swallows NYC and the stupid people finally admit their mistake, it'll be too late.

    I really don't get the argument that research is inconclusive because we can't look too far into the past. These same people who say that seem to have no trouble accepting the age of the universe (creationists notwithstanding, they're a lost cause), age of the Earth, projected lifespan of the Sun, extinction of dinosaurs or Hubble telescope pictures, which literally look into the past, if you grasp the basics of how light works.

    There are plenty of theories in science to discuss and disagree on. Stuff like man-made climate change and evolution and shit is basic knowledge that some idiots prefer to reject because it upsets their worldview.
     
  11. Perspicacity

    Perspicacity High Score: 3,994 Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Having done my taxes since I was seventeen, I'd note that having a mortgage on one's home typically implies ownership. (Especially if one could pay the thing off out of savings, yet interest rates are so favorable that it'd be silly to do so.)
     
  12. Hush

    Hush Sixth Year

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    I thought those were more about atmospheric conditions rather than highly sensitive temperature measurements. The planet on average is less than a degree celsius higher than it was a hundred years ago...

    No need to get all bitchy.
     
  13. Perspicacity

    Perspicacity High Score: 3,994 Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Willful ignorance is not a virtue. Climate denial is essentially modern-day flat-Eartherism.
     
  14. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    Which is made more tragic by the existence of people like Ken Ham.
     
  15. Hush

    Hush Sixth Year

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    When for years I'd been told as fact that Africa was the birth place of mankind, and this year they are now saying it's actually Europe, so yeah I'll sit on the fence. I listen to both arguments, but new findings come out all the time. If you're not willing to say, hey I don't actually know for sure, then you're arrogant.

    What's worse is when people regurgitate science like it's gospel, criticising others for their less up to date knowledge of it, even when it's been shown drastically change in a short period of time. Our measurements of the distances of the planets and stars has changed, their sizes. Who is to say something new won't come out that changes all of these things?

    I feel like nowadays science has very much become it's own religion, and any voice of dissent is met with vitriol. You only have to look at the development of science and it's history to know how on many things we're actually not that 100% sure of.

    Science definitely has it's place, but Jesus, am I the only one that goes what the actual fuck when shit changes completely? So me, knowing how much things can change, am on the fence. It's not like I'm saying what we're experiencing isn't a product of our own creation, just that it's unnecessary to shame people for coming to a different conclusion based on their experiences.
     
  16. Perspicacity

    Perspicacity High Score: 3,994 Prestige DLP Supporter

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    I'm arrogant, perhaps, but I'm also a professional scientist (Ph.D. physicist, 26 years of experience, yadda yadda.) I know for sure.

    Don't be an idiot.
     
  17. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    You misunderstand the nature of theory change in science.

    You have a set of observations. You have a model which explains those observations. The model is not "true" in the sense that 1+1=2 is true but it has a connection with reality which we might call approximate truth or empirical adequacy.

    The lack of 100% truth does not inhibit the usefulness of the theory. You stand on a bridge and it doesn't fall down. You use a computer and successfully communicate with someone on the other side of the planet. You can do these things because the theories that underpin the technologies have enough resemblance to the truth that they capture some important aspect of reality. If they didn't then bridges would fall down and computers would not work.

    New observations can force you to refine your model, or a theoretical innovation may cause the model to change such that it fits current observations better. This does not mean that what you had before was completely disconnected from reality. As stated, if it was disconnected from reality, its products would not function. Rather, the model is improving by increments towards higher and higher levels of approximate truth.

    A side effect of this process is that the new theory usually explains why it was the old theory was so good at accounting for observations. For example, one can recover Newtonian mechanics from the mechanics of special relativity if one limits velocities to relatively low levels. So the new theory does not destroy the previous theory, but rather it subsumes it.
     
  18. Perspicacity

    Perspicacity High Score: 3,994 Prestige DLP Supporter

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    The mechanics of the greenhouse effect have to be in effect for the Earth to not be at -18°C instead of 15°C on average. There's no controversy here, as it's basic thermodynamics. Then do the math with worldwide CO2 production rates and levels in the atmosphere prior to industrialization (easily obtainable from a variety of sources) and, in short order, you'll convince yourself that humans are wrecking change upon our climate.
     
  19. IAmJustAnotherGuy

    IAmJustAnotherGuy Seventh Year

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    Another year and I'm still the last of the Meeheecans.
     
  20. Blorcyn

    Blorcyn Professor DLP Supporter

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    Gosh, we sure are aging.

    The survey made me realise HP has been almost entirely supplanted in terms of what I read bar a few crossovers since last year. Sad.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017