Doctor Who

Discussion in 'Movies, Music and TV shows' started by EsperJones, Apr 12, 2009.

  1. EsperJones

    EsperJones Death Eater

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    908
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    That was actual proper foreshadowing for a resolution!

    That said, during that penultimate scene I was actually thinking they would leave the Doctor dead and have Bill and the Pilot continue the show. I'm not sure which I would actually prefer, come to think about it. (Maybe a spinoff?)
     
  2. Daedros

    Daedros Seventh Year

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    221
    It only seems fitting for Moffat to round off his tenure by building up a ton of hype only to let it all come crashing down in a pile of shit.
     
  3. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    7,441
    Location:
    Australia
    It felt to me like they were trying to recapture the awesome of Matt Smith's exit with the whole 'defend the tiny village against a horde of enemies' bullshit. Don't get me started on the ass pull for Bill's character.

    God forbid they let her die and find peace in death with that chick she liked instead of that convoluted bullshit they shoved down our throats.

    Fun fact.

    I don't think Missy ever claimed that she was the Master following Simon directly. Something to look forward to.
     
  4. Indrik

    Indrik First Year

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2015
    Messages:
    24
    High Score:
    0
    First, just to get it out of the way, the back-and-forth as to the effectiveness of Cyberman brainwashing between appearances is ridiculous. Clara's teacher boyfriend Danny inevitably surrenders, but the Brigadier can resist even though he's a corpse. The Doctor has to outsmart an alternate personality to destroy the nanites that infested him in that episode with the midget emperor, but Stormagedon's dad does it out of pure fatherly love. And, admittedly, Bill's version of the process was comparatively primitive, but it still had the emotion suppressing arch thing and having a lifelong imaginary friend/mom does not make her special. Being creative does not overpower literal alteration of your brain. I know the show feeds on fellating the power of the human race, but some standards would be nice.

    Otherwise, there were a number of odd decision in this episode, I thought.

    While the scene with the Masters was compelling in the moment, it rather cuts the Missy 'can the Master be good?' plotline they've spent the last couple seasons developing at the knees for little payoff, as the Master's return in some form is essentially inevitable. Either they just decided to abandon the idea which is bad writing, or the Doctor will return triumphantly to save the day after getting over his latest regeneration angst - which makes this meaningless and hollow.

    By far the worst though was the puddle girl deus ex machina. In her first appearance, she's transformed from college girl to lawful pilot computer by way of The Ring, but suddenly she has her full human personality and memories back and has become a Star Trek replicator just so Bill can have a happy ending and even become human again. This is the second companion to have her life saved by an asspull that leaves her wandering the cosmos as an immortal (Clara's undead with a time machine and Bill is now basically a program on a shapeshifting timeship) independent of the Doctor. I wouldn't really mind the outcome so much if it wasn't so transparently contrived when compared to prior companions having to deal with the consequences of their Doctor-driven journeys in one way or another.

    Beyond that though, the puddleship violates some of the rules established for this particular story earlier in the double-parter. I don't expect much in the way of consistency on technobabble between episodes, but you'd think they could at least manage it in a single story.

    The Doctor says the farm refugees can't just take the elevator up to the top floor where the TARDIS is located because it would give the Cybermen thousands of years to plan around it - makes sense, relativity and all. He also says the TARDIS can't travel to the lower levels due to the black hole and time differential (or something like that, I forget the exact explanation). The Master, meanwhile, blew out a circuit on his TARDIS by attempting to forcibly leave the black hole-adjacent side of the ship. Regardless, the puddleship appears freely on one of the lower levels and then travels across the time differential to the Doctor's TARDIS without cyberman interference.

    It's ability to do so implies one of two things in-universe: a) the puddleship is more advanced than the TARDIS and not subject to the same travel limitations here, which is possible but seems unlikely what with Time Lords; or b) conditions have changed enough that time travel on the colony ship is possible (supported by the fact the Master and Missy seem rather convinced the replacement part will allow them to leave now) and the puddleship was just being a massive bitch in abandoning Nardole and the farmers, now long dead by the relative time at the TARDIS, to the non-existent mercies of the Cybermen.

    I agree with Jon that the small group of survivors likely a reference to the previous defense of village Doctor send-off, but I'm not sure the writers thought this through, even if it is a setup for the Doctor's triumphant return and rescue as Fem!Doc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  5. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon Prestige DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,191
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The dungeon. Not in the girls' toilet. No sir.
    High Score:
    2,002
    The Masters killing each other and then cackling madly about it may just be my favorite scene in the entirety of Doctor Who. Absolute perfection.

    The rest of the ep was a bit meh.
    Not a huge fan of puddleship returning to save the day. Also not a huge fan of bringing in Bradley to play One. He was great in the Hartnell biopic, and managed to convey an enormous amount of respect for the actor in his portrayal... but... well... carrying that recast into canon material just feels odd, especially as they've showed Hartnell onscreen in Nuwho multiple times in flashbacky bits.
     
  6. Joe

    Joe The Reminiscent Exile Prestige DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    559
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    High Score:
    1,800
    To be fair to Bradley, it's not the first time the 1st Doctor has been played on screen by a different actor. It happened around the 5th Doctor's run, as well, if I remember that right. So there's precedent.
     
  7. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon Prestige DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,191
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The dungeon. Not in the girls' toilet. No sir.
    High Score:
    2,002
    It felt weird when they did it with Hurndall, too.
     
  8. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box Prestige

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,125
    Location:
    UK
    High Score:
    2,296
  9. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    7,441
    Location:
    Australia
    I pick Ben Affleck.
     
  10. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon Prestige DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,191
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The dungeon. Not in the girls' toilet. No sir.
    High Score:
    2,002
    Don't really care, although I do hope they go with a redhead be they natural or dyed, just so the Doctor can scream "I'M FINALLY GINGERRRRR!!!!!!" and then cue theme song.

    Edit: Also, I need Tennant to come back as the Valyard.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  11. Quick Ben

    Quick Ben In ur docs, stealin ur werds.

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    978
    Location:
    Nairobi
    Change is always exciting. I hope they picked well.
     
  12. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box Prestige

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,125
    Location:
    UK
    High Score:
    2,296
    Well, there is a shot of the 10 on the door of Downing Street turning to a 13, so maybe you're onto something :p
     
  13. Celestin

    Celestin Half-Blood Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,701
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    We have a new Doctor and it's still not a ginger. :)
     
  14. Redsayn

    Redsayn Second Year

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2014
    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The 13th Doctor is officially Jodie Whittaker!
    ...
    But Celestin's right. She's not ginger. Shame.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  15. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box Prestige

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,125
    Location:
    UK
    High Score:
    2,296
    I seem to recall her being pretty good in Broadchurch. She's certainly got the acting chops for the dramatic/emotional moments, although I have no idea about how she'll handle the lighter moments. She seems like a solid choice. Now I'm just waiting for the internet outrage over a) a female Doctor, b) female but straight and white, c) how come the first female Doctor only gets a ten second announcement trailer when Capaldi and Smith both got dedicated, half hour long shows discussing them.
     
  16. Celestin

    Celestin Half-Blood Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,701
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    I only watched Jodie Whittaker in Broadchurch where she was pretty good in her role, but it doesn't really tell much about what to expect from her as the Doctor. That said, one thing neither her nor Chris Chibnall are allowed to have is a mediocre season that Capaldi had after he became the Doctor. People who already are against them will use it as validation of their opinions and attack them that much more. Their first season need to be really good and it would be even better if their first episode was as good as The Eleventh Hour. Anything less and we may get the Fourteenth Doctor a lot sooner than after the usual three series.

    My general expectations for a female Doctor I wrote a year ago in a plot bunny thread.
     
  17. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box Prestige

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,125
    Location:
    UK
    High Score:
    2,296
    ^This. Chris Chibnall's got some good from on the show already, but no stone-cold classics. He and the rest of the writing team are really going to need to bring their absolute best right from the start, which you'd obviously hope for anyway, but they'll get crucified if they don't.

    As an addition to my last post, I'm lol'ing at all the commenters saying that Moffat has ruined the show, while apparently not realising that although he might have made it canonically possible, Chibnall could easily have ignored it and stuck with the formula.
     
  18. IAmJustAnotherGuy

    IAmJustAnotherGuy Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    270
    Location:
    Mexico
    I have no doubts that Jodie has the acting chops but I am still a bit concerned. I'll admit I haven't seen everything that she's in but in the selected things I have seen her act her characters always come off as annoying/infuriating.Well acted, but not my favorite kind of characters (I only really liked her in Broadchurch until season 3). Still, the Doctor's never been miscasted so I hope everything turns up well, she has the chops after all.

    Does this mean we'll have a male companion this time? Or perhapos we'll keep the idea of a trio flying on the TARDIS?
     
  19. Quick Ben

    Quick Ben In ur docs, stealin ur werds.

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    978
    Location:
    Nairobi
    Well, they've been laying the groundwork since Missy was a thing, so I'm not surprised. She reminds of Peter Davison.

    I hope they give her a female companion that can be used to show how weird it would be for the Doctor to adjust to having female biology. Actually, Bill would have been a good companion for her.
     
  20. EsperJones

    EsperJones Death Eater

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    908
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    No issues with the casting. Never seen anything Jodie was in before and the intro trailer wasn't too bad. (Not that it had any content, mind you.)

    I just hope this isn't a death knell of the show. Capaldi was a great actor but the majority of the writing did not do him justice. If it doesn't improve, it will give ammunition to the "the doctor should never be female" camp.