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European Elections

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Dark Belra, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    No. Because deliberately acting against your self-interest is irrational.

    Besides, if your principles are already being violated no matter the choice, then your principles aren't going to be affected either way.
     
  2. Agayek

    Agayek Dark Lord

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    Unless the gain from acting against your self-interest is worth more to you than said act. If, for example, you view your support as inherently valuable, and believe in it strongly, then the risk of a worst-case outcome could easily be worth less to you than maintaining the integrity and value of your support.

    As for your second point, well, Pascal's Wager doesn't fly for religion, why would it for this?

    No... Not voting is not giving active support to candidates that you do not support. It's taking a principled stand founded on the idea that your support has value, and you are only going to give it to people worthy of that value.

    Besides, you as a member of society have zero obligation to tell other people what they want, or even what you think would be best for them. It's one of the foundational principles of liberalism, to the point that I'm not terribly clear on why it's so contentious. People can make their own goddamn choices, and you have no right to make their choices for them, just as they don't have that right for yours.

    So if the wider whole of society then goes on to support one of the options that you disagreed with most, that's unfortunate, but that's their choice. And since you chose not to make a vote, and thereby exert your influence, you don't have any right to complain about it.
     
  3. calutron

    calutron Unspeakable

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    Recognizing that your actions have consequences for other people is not the same as making choices for others or judging others best interest.

    Even in a state of complete ignorance about the circumstances of everyone other voter, it's a rational conclusion that electoral outcomes will have a positive effect on some and negative on others. And it is not impossible to predict them in a general non-specific way.

    Knowing that there are theoretical sufferers in either way, I would feel an obligation to make a choice rather let chance decide which hypothetical group is effected to the best of my predictive ability.

    The only exit from this conundrum that I can see(that would allow me to not vote) is a) An inability on my part to even generally predict potential consequences, b) All possibilities yield the same result. I could of course exercise my right do as I please, but that would mean I would have to lie to myself about the future consequences that are likely to happen or entirely ignore them as someone else's problem.
     
  4. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    I can certainly understand understand the idea that both parties are so utterly repugnant that I couldn't being myself to vote for either one, but I don't think any functioning democracy has reached that point.

    I mean, I would probably abstain if it was a run-off election between the "Kill All Minorities" party and the "Kill All Gays" party, even if pure logic says I should vote the party that plans to commit a slightly lower number of crimes against humanity. However, that's a bit of an absurd situation, and honestly if an election reaches that point it's probably a sign that the democratic institutions are utterly broken anyway.
     
  5. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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  6. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Yeah, I tried to watch, and then rolled my eyes and muted the sound. Le Pen attacked Macron on all levels, while Macron tried to explain to her how an economy works.

    If you cared about substance, Le Pen had none and Macron a little.

    Tbh, it seemed like playing for the base. I doubt this won Le Pen any voter she didn't already have. The ones she does have will love it, of course. That elite, expert, politician in a suit got shouted at.
     
  7. Dark Belra

    Dark Belra Minister of Magic

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    I kind of got the impression that she may have wanted to be a little Trumpy. But she just went into weird. I don't think that moment really needs translation.
     
  8. Dark Belra

    Dark Belra Minister of Magic

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    Macron is going to look for tax harmonization in the Eurozone and the Taoiseach of Ireland is understandably not happy about changing Irish corporation taxes.

     
  9. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Well that obviously won't go anywhere.
     
  10. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Russia is not amused.
     
  11. Arthellion

    Arthellion Groundskeeper

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    In Soviet Russia, Russia vote for you.
     
  12. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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    Saw a thread on Twitter earlier today analysing the users posting about the French election on the basis of used hashtags etc. The top two profile hashtags aren't exactly French (nor is the third about politics, but it is French). Apparently, #maga and #theresistance have a vested interest in the upcoming election.

    Make of that what you will.

    There's an EUSSR joke to be made in here, I am sure.
     
  13. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    ... or for your opponent, indeed.

    This is getting rather too easy, though. If a great rule of thumb becomes that you want to vote for the candidate who gets hacked, it's losing effectiveness. Plus, if they smarten up, srs bsns in campaigns gets conducted the old-fashioned way. Over a drink in a quiet corner in a pub. What's left is fake stuff -- and once people are jaded enough to trust nothing and discard everything, we have finally reached nirvana.
     
  14. Dark Belra

    Dark Belra Minister of Magic

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    I feel like to some degree the people who are trying to influence the election just don't get French culture to some degree. Like back when they were creating rumors that Macron was gay or that Macron was sleeping with his step-daughter. French people just don't care about who their president sleeps with.

    I feel like this email hack is just a last minute desperation move on Russia's part. From what I'm hearing, the emails are pretty much nothing.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  15. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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    Oh, and following up on the propaganda, latest round on 4chan and the usual Reddit/Twitter haunts is that Macron engaged in tax evasion or something. Thread.
     
  16. Dark Belra

    Dark Belra Minister of Magic

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    As expected, Macron is going to be the French President with 65% of the vote. (By first estimation)
     
  17. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    I'm guessing the Trump must love the guy then.

    Srs post: Being pro-EU myself, I'm pleased with the outcome. One -exit is enough.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  18. Tsar

    Tsar Third Year

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    Ew, harmonization just another way to strip away comparative advantage.
     
  19. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    The_Donald's latest thread is saltier than the Dead Sea.

    "Fuck you France, we're not storming those beaches again."

    Goes on in that vein. Rallying cries of antiglobalism in 2017 continue to baffle me. Might as well try stopping climate change, amirite?
     
  20. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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    Srs reply to joking point: probably most of #macronleaks is fabricated.

    Actual election point: pretty big spoiled vote rate (>10 %) allegedly. Probably a record, but how are the normal spoiled vote rates? Might say something about the incoming parliamentary elections too - I'd wager the French Left wouldn't be too keen on what's essentially a technocrat taking office.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017