1. Hey Guest, welcome back to DLP

    As you can see, we've changed our look. We've migrated from vBulletin to the Xenforo forum system. There may be issues or missing functionality, if you find anything or have feedback, please check out the new Xenforo Migration Feedback forum.

    Our dark ("Dark Lord Potter") theme is under heavy development. We also have a light ("Light Lord Potter") theme for those happier with a light background and darker text.

    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Hey Guest! Are you any good at cooking? Got a favourite recipe that you love to cook or bring out to impress that special someone? Why not share it! A new forum called The Burrow has opened and it's all about homemaking!

Harry Potter and Not So Smart Villains

Discussion in 'Hall of Shame' started by Havaiamas, Dec 16, 2013.

Not open for further replies.
  1. Havaiamas

    Havaiamas Second Year

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    54
    Book 1-

    Give me the stone Harry, no I won't, give it, nope, GIVE IT! Not a chance. Take it from him Quirell! Takes out his wand, petrificus totalus, accio stone!
    Voldemort comes back 3 years earlier.

    Book 3-

    No Pettigrew, you won't escape this time, pertrificus totalus!

    Oh no, Lupin is converting, everyone, quick, petrify him before he converts, everyone casts the spell together, Lupin is petrified!

    Book 4-

    At Hogsmeade, Moody/Crouch to Harry-
    Harry, come here, I need to talk to you urgently. Sure Professor, what happened? Not here, we need privacy, come with me, it'll take only a minute. Sure Professor.
    petrificus totalus! Apparates and takes him to The Dark Lord.

    Book 5-

    Harry and his friends are surrounded by Death Eaters but don't know it. Harry picks up the prophecy, multiple voices ring out, petrificus totalus! accio prophecy!

    The Dark lord will be pleased, plus three young girls to enjoy for us, take them all to our secret hideout.

    Book 6-

    Harry lay curled on the dark grass, clutching his wand and panting; somewhere overhead Snape was shouting, Have you forgotten our orders? Potter belongs to the Dark Lord - we are to leave him! Go! Go!
    Oh shut up you idiot, I am not killing him, petrificus totalus!
    Now let's take him to The Dark Lord, he'll be pleased.
     
  2. enembee

    enembee The Nicromancer Prestige DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    146
    Location:
    Murias
    High Score:
    2,451
    DarkLordPotter and the Not So Subtle Troll
     
  3. Havaiamas

    Havaiamas Second Year

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    54
    DarkLordPotter Troll and Blind Fan

    Think I am trolling? Take my points down, I will be more than happy if someone one tells me I am wrong and why.

    For eg. There's a chance Quirell using spells on Harry wouldn't hve worked, but he could have easily used spells on the stone, other stones and Harry's clothes to harm Harry and get the stone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  4. Starwind

    Starwind Headmaster

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,045
    Book 1-
    ^
    But instead he tried to touch him and get it.... And burned.

    Book 3-
    ^
    We dont even know if you can stop a transformation, for all we know you cant.

    Book 4-
    ^
    Apparating with someone over extremley long distances was shown to be tricky. Also, sure I read a post a while back about a theory of how the ritual needed to be on that night for some reason.

    Chance of dropping the prophecy if they did that... and I like how every idiot fan likes to have the death eaters rape girls.

    Book 6-
    You love the petrificus spell...

    Yes there were plot holes, but at the end of the day, Rowlings story sounds a lot better than any of these outcomes wouldve been tbh.
     
  5. Narf

    Narf Administrator Admin DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,068
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone:

    As you can clearly see, Quirrell was close enough at the time to immediately grab Harry's wrist without any trouble at all. It wasn't like he ran after Harry, he literally just threw out his arm and stopped him. Where was the need for spells? Voldemort had no idea that Lily's protection would harm him and his vessel.

    Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban:

    First of all, it was a highly tense situation. Harry was over-the-moon happy that he would be able to live with his godfather, Ron had a fuckin' broken leg (and was actually tied to Remus), and Sirius and Remus had just reconciled and trapped their former best friend turned traitor. Everyone's emotions were running high, except for perhaps Hermione. Sirius was also a bit preoccupied with holding the unconscious Snape afloat with his wand. But what was Sirius' first thought when he saw Remus start to transform? Harry's safety. He didn't want a bunch of 13 year old untrained wizards around a fully realized werewolf. So he made them get out of there before Remus finished his transformation.

    Who's to say that werewolves don't have somewhat of an immunity to spells like giants do? Or like dragons. They are a magical creature, after all, one that is feared. Would they be so feared if they were stopped by a simple spell a 1st year could easily learn?

    Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire:

    Why the fuck do you think you can apparate on Hogwarts grounds? That has to be like one of the most known facts in Harry Potter.

    Harry didn't even fucking know it was Moody taking him. He was half out of his mind, everyone was yelling at him and around him, and he was holding the body of Cedric after seeing Voldemort being reborn. So yeah, he went with someone who was being comforting and saying that he needed to lie down. Hell, even Dumbledore was distracted enough for Crouch to get Harry out of there.

    Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix:

    Seriously, bro, you think that a multitude of Death Eaters shouting summoning and petrifying hexes would work? The reason they weren't throwing spells around like that was even explained in the books -- they couldn't afford for Harry to drop it. One petrifying spell and there would go the prophecy. And Malfoy did try to summon it, Harry still managed to hang on to it.

    Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince:

    You even quoted this yourself. Why are you conveniently forgetting that little part? At that moment in time, Voldemort did not want Harry. There can be any number of reasons for this.

    These aren't bad villains, this is bad reading comprehension.

    If you want plot holes in Harry Potter, there are a few big ones -- none of the ones you listed are even remotely close to being plot holes or being evidence of "not-so smart villains".
     
  6. Caledfwlch

    Caledfwlch Sixth Year DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    174
    Location:
    Avalon
    I haven't read the books in several years, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong-

    There were several layers of protection hiding the stone. It stands to reason that Dumbledore would have placed a protection on the stone to stop something as simple as an accio moving it - in the same way Dumbledore couldn't accio the locket in the basin.

    During Lupin's transformation, the only people who could have petrified him (Snape was unconscious iirc) were three panicked children and a half-mad Sirius. It's unreasonable to expect either party to have managed something like that. And if preventing a werewolf transformation was as easy as petrifying them, then James/Peter/Sirius would never had to become animagus.

    Barty Crouch Jr couldn't have apparated from Hogwarts.

    In the fourth book, casting petrificus totalus on Harry might have caused him to drop the prophecy ball, smashing it. An unnamed female Death Eater did try to accio it, but Harry used Protego.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  7. Luckylee

    Luckylee Top 1 Percent Prestige

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    Same.
    High Score:
    1,828
    I'm just waiting for Taure to show up. Although Sree did a pretty good job in his place.
     
  8. Republic

    Republic The Snow Queen Prestige DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,502
    Location:
    Germany occupied Greece
    High Score:
    4,495
    Despite the OP's innate trollishness, no one actually argues in favor of Voldemort's plan in GoF, are they?
     
  9. Havaiamas

    Havaiamas Second Year

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    54
    Omg, so many fallacies, I will try to point them all, think over your next reply and don't let emotions get in the way. Also, please don't use the word fuck, it's demeaning and you won't like it if I use it.

    As you can clearly see, Quirrell was close enough at the time to immediately grab Harry's wrist without any trouble at all. It wasn't like he ran after Harry, he literally just threw out his arm and stopped him. Where was the need for spells? Voldemort had no idea that Lily's protection would harm him and his vessel.

    It is not at all clear that Quirell was close to Harry to immediately grab his wrist, he was facing backwards too, he had to turn and then grab, Harry had sprang, he would have been some diatnce away now. What the text implies is that Quirell was fast, which is obvious, Harry is 11 and tired, how fast can he run?

    Also, why even bother asking Harry for the stone when you can summon it? Can't summon the stone? Summon Harry's pants. Of course you can justify that it was an emotional moment and all that stuff, but think about it, people whose acts are influenced by their emotions and the decisions they take are not easiest ones to their goals, are not smart.

    Also, Voldemort is the evil genius, I expect more from geniuses.

    First of all, it was a highly tense situation. Harry was over-the-moon happy that he would be able to live with his godfather, Ron had a fuckin' broken leg (and was actually tied to Remus), and Sirius and Remus had just reconciled and trapped their former best friend turned traitor. Everyone's emotions were running high, except for perhaps Hermione. Sirius was also a bit preoccupied with holding the unconscious Snape afloat with his wand. But what was Sirius' first thought when he saw Remus start to transform? Harry's safety. He didn't want a bunch of 13 year old untrained wizards around a fully realized werewolf. So he made them get out of there before Remus finished his transformation.

    Again, people not taking a wise decision because they were influenced by emotions, not smart. Also, they had a petrified Snape whom they were levitating back to the castle, that didn't give any of them the idea? Two of those were aurors, shouldn't the appropriate usage of simple spells be ingrained into them? Also, not letting Pettigrew escape was on everyone's mind, no one came up with such a simple solution, even when they were doing that exact same thing to another person. How is that smart?

    Who's to say that werewolves don't have somewhat of an immunity to spells like giants do? Or like dragons. They are a magical creature, after all, one that is feared. Would they be so feared if they were stopped by a simple spell a 1st year could easily learn?

    Please don't imagine immunities, we have Fenrir petrified in HBP. Also, I didn't say petrify the werewolf, I said, petrify him while he was converting, still half human, should have been easier, especially when three spells would have hit him.

    Why the fuck do you think you can apparate on Hogwarts grounds? That has to be like one of the most known facts in Harry Potter.

    You have poor comprehension skills, I wrote Hogsmeade. Please don't use offensive language.

    Harry didn't even fucking know it was Moody taking him. He was half out of his mind, everyone was yelling at him and around him, and he was holding the body of Cedric after seeing Voldemort being reborn. So yeah, he went with someone who was being comforting and saying that he needed to lie down. Hell, even Dumbledore was distracted enough for Crouch to get Harry out of there.

    Again, I mentioned Hogsmeade. Please learn to read.

    Seriously, bro, you think that a multitude of Death Eaters shouting summoning and petrifying hexes would work? The reason they weren't throwing spells around like that was even explained in the books -- they couldn't afford for Harry to drop it. One petrifying spell and there would go the prophecy. And Malfoy did try to summon it, Harry still managed to hang on to it.

    Why can't you think tactically? All the Death Eaters use petrificus totalus on different people, so they are all petrified and only one uses the summoning spell. Bellatrix tries to summon the prophecy but Harry holds on to it. They could have petrified everyone but Harry, so many options, but they choose the most idiotic one. Also, petrificus totalus is such an easy spell, they can use it non-verbally too.

    You even quoted this yourself. Why are you conveniently forgetting that little part? At that moment in time, Voldemort did not want Harry. There can be any number of reasons for this.

    Oh please, Voldemort is trying all the time to catch Harry, so are his death eaters, all he wants is to kill him himself. And if Voldemort and DEs let go of such an easy opportunity to capture Harry, what are they but not smart?

    Again, there can be a number of reasons, but they are not present in canon, so according to canon, the DEs made a very stupid decision.

    I myself have many more imaginative negatives in HP, and the ones that everyone mentions, why mention them, it's obvious they are there. Once I judge that people here can have a critical discussion, I will share more. You Sir, failed.

    @Starwind-

    Book 1-
    ^
    But instead he tried to touch him and get it.... And burned.

    Book 3-
    ^
    We dont even know if you can stop a transformation, for all we know you cant.

    Book 4-
    ^
    Apparating with someone over extremley long distances was shown to be tricky. Also, sure I read a post a while back about a theory of how the ritual needed to be on that night for some reason.

    Chance of dropping the prophecy if they did that... and I like how every idiot fan likes to have the death eaters rape girls.

    Book 6-
    You love the petrificus spell...

    Yes there were plot holes, but at the end of the day, Rowlings story sounds a lot better than any of these outcomes wouldve been tbh.


    Book 1- Yes, he does that, and that was the least ideal way for him to get the stone, not smart right?

    Book 3- Not stopping the transformation, just stunning the person transforming, we have Fenrir in werewolf form lying stunned in Book 6.
    Here, three spells would have hit a half human and half werewolf.

    Book 4- He didn't have to apparate for long distances, he could have done it several short distances, Harry was anyways stunned.

    Harry is stunned, they could have kept him stunned till the night came. Also, stunning all your prisoners should be like the standard practice in the wizarding world, easy and effective. But it doesn't happen, not smart right?

    Book 5- Please don't curse, satisfying sexual urges is very commong in evil people, also, that was a joke, forget that

    Like I mentioned above, they could have stunned everyone but Harry, easy. Or, stun everyone, but quickly levitate Harry, and summon prophecy. A little more complex, but come on, these are all highly trained and powerful wizards, easy stuff. They had ample numbers too, 6 DE stun everyone, 7th levitates, 8th summons, the rest of them jerk off. So easy.

    Book 6- No I don't, what I meant to clarify, the subtext that is, is that even using a simple spell effectively changes everything, forget using tougher spells properly. And I can think of many more instances of using spells and objects properly. But to share that, I need confidence that I can have a discussion here, logical and critical, without name calling, you too, Sir, failed.

    I am HP fan, started reading before the movies came out, but I can see the faults, and discuss without name calling.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  10. Caledfwlch

    Caledfwlch Sixth Year DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    174
    Location:
    Avalon
    You're being ridiculous.

    Yes, well, this is Voldemort. A wraith that's living on unicorn blood. A fraction of a soul. Voldemort isn't sane.

    Now you're just pulling facts out of your ass. I wasn't aware that anyone there was an auror.

    We don't know if they can use it non-verbally, but that isn't really the point. Not only one person uses the spell - Dolohov attempts to do cast it also, but is interrupted. If they had attempted to petrify everyone except Harry, Harry and co. would have fought back and they might have dropped it in the confusion. Lucius wanted to avoid that.

    My mistake. I'm not sure why Voldemort wanted Harry taken to him at the time he did, I'm assuming it had something to do with the ritual.

    Why is that the least ideal way? It was the most convenient.

    Not just 'a little more complex', it would also have been very risky. I doubt they'd have been willing to incur the Dark Lord's wrath.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  11. Havaiamas

    Havaiamas Second Year

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    54
    That wraith instructed Quirell to break into Gringotts, without leaving a trace, even before drinking Unicorn blood. A mighty feat.

    I am sorry, I meant members of Order of Phoenix and highly trained and capable wizards. Under the guidance of Dumbledore too. Should have thought of using such a simple spell and make sure he doesn't escape. There's also an issues of using Pensieve properly for court hearings, will make another thread if I gain some trust.

    Also, about their emotions, hope is a positive emotion and a very strong one, it affects and broadens reasoning skills along with many others. All of them were hopeful and even happy when they had the situation under control, should have thought of doing such a simple thing. But that's not good for the plot right. ;)
     
  12. Luckylee

    Luckylee Top 1 Percent Prestige

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    Same.
    High Score:
    1,828
    Pensieve memories can be faked.
     
  13. Havaiamas

    Havaiamas Second Year

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    54
    Dumbledore uses the spell non-verbally, Pettigrew also uses a sell similar to it to stun Ron, in POA, assuming it's a simple spell and a lot more complex spells are used non verbally by DEs, this is easy. They all try to cast it after revealing themselves and when Harry and co. are escaping. Harry and his friends didn't even know DEs were there covering them, they had surprise on their side, the DEs, most important weapon. They threw it away!

    And asking is not risky? Come on, they could have done this even before Harry and his friends could blink.

    The ritual needed to be done on a particular day, Harry didn't need to be captured on a particular day. Also, Crouch/Moody didn't even need to blow his cover, lock Harry after stunning him and go back to hogsmeade, pretend he has disappeared. So much better, and keeping Harry in prison till the day of ritual comes is again easy. Feed him, stun him rest of the time.

    ---------- Post automerged at 05:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 AM ----------

    No they cannot, let's drop this for now, I will explain and give evidence in another thread.
     
  14. Poytin

    Poytin The Arby's Hipster DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,063
    Location:
    Nevada
    I would like to see where Dumbledore trained anyone. Or that they were trained more than the 7 years of Hogwarts. Also that entire night was fuelled by emotions. And the only grown wizard had just spent a good portion of a year on the run from the law after escaping from a place crowded with Dementors. And probably not using a good wand for him.

    But please. Do continue to pull stuff out of your ass. I want to know how much you have up there.
     
  15. Caledfwlch

    Caledfwlch Sixth Year DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    174
    Location:
    Avalon
    I never said he wasn't a genius. Just that he wasn't sane - he didn't have much control over his emotions. Planning how to break into a bank is very different and much less emotionally detached in comparison to being confronted with the cause of your demise.

    They hadn't been members of the Order of Phoenix for over a decade. Sirius had gone at least a little insane from Azkaban, and I'm not sure who the second you're referring to is. Being a part of the Order of Phoenix does not make you a 'highly trained and capable wizard'. Look at Arabella Figg, Mundungus Fletcher, and Hagrid.

    Where's your evidence?

    They can be tampered with. Look at Slughorn's memory in Half-Blood Prince.

    No, it isn't. Attempting to gain it through diplomacy first was expected. Before they could blink is a gross exaggeration and leads back to the same problem of dropping the prophecy sphere.

    Kidnapping Harry would have led to a manhunt, and with both the Ministry and Dumbledore searching, it would have made it very difficult for Voldemort, especially without his body - in fact, he only had Pettigrew and Barty at the time. It was way too dangerous to bring attention to himself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  16. Havaiamas

    Havaiamas Second Year

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    54
    You're forgetting that the insane Black managed to use wit to escape for Azkaban, avoid capture, roam around and piss on stone and trees, befriend a cat, a cat! Cats hate everyone. Insanity doesn't mean impaired cognitive skills.

    Yes it doesn't, but Remus and Black were very capable wizards, any arguments to the contrary? Do I really need to mention their achievements and skills?

    Regarding hope- http://guilfordjournals.com/doi/abs/10.1521/soco.1983.2.1.18

    They were all filled with hope, and the reason for that was capturing Pettigrew, no one thought of doing the same thing they were doing to Snape! Not smart.

    And it was easily discernible tht is has been tampered with, please, no more on pensieve for now, discussion is already getting tough to manage, I am one, you guys are many.

    To Poytin- If Dumbledore didn't guide, please learn to read, guide not train the wizards working under him to beat dark wizards, so that they can be more efficient, that makes a bad decision by Dumbledore. Members of OOP can hold their own against many DEs who have been trained in dark arts, obviously they have had training for that right? Dumbledore could have made Moody or other highly capable ones train everyone. And this is basic stuff, transporting a captured person, stun him. It doesn't take a year of brainstorming!
     
  17. Poytin

    Poytin The Arby's Hipster DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,063
    Location:
    Nevada
    You're right. I should increase my reading comprehension. But more than that I should remember that arguing with an idiot is like punching yourself in the balls repeatedly.
     
  18. Havaiamas

    Havaiamas Second Year

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    54
    Yes, and Moody being the best auror, Crouch could have easily used his influence to misguide them and leak information so that Voldemort can keep escaping.

    No it's not! Imagine, you're all looking at the prophecy and towards each other, you dnt what's behind you, spells travel fast, used non-verbally, Harry and his friends would have been stunned even before they realized someone is there. Also, diplomacy too would have been better if they stunned everyone but Harry. Not smart right?
     
  19. Luckylee

    Luckylee Top 1 Percent Prestige

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    Same.
    High Score:
    1,828
    No they cannot, let's drop this for now, I will explain and give evidence in another thread.

    How about, no? It has been stated repeatedly in canon that pensieve memories can be faked or tampered with. IIRC Slughorn gave Dumbledore a fake memory of his chat with Voldemort.
     
  20. Havaiamas

    Havaiamas Second Year

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    54
    Ohooo, please drop it, stick to the original post, I will make another thread and give evidence.

    Another point, in the Goblet of Fire, I can't recall that the ritual needed to be done on a particular day, just that it needed to be done with the right ingredients, someone please clarify this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
Not open for further replies.