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Abandoned Harry Potter and the Remnants of the Soul by Cubdom - T

Discussion in 'General Fics' started by Shezza, Jun 7, 2006.

  1. yojorocks

    yojorocks Seventh Year

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    Columbus, OH
    A few questions and comments:

    Harry now has seven soul pieces in one container. Does that mean he could be hit by six killing curses and still be alive? I won't try to say that blowing his head off wouldn't kill him, but if the AK "kills" a soul, would it be possible? Or does the AK simply stop electrical signals to the brain or something? Just food for your thought.

    Harry's detachment was VERY well done. I remember after a close death everything seemed so surreal, I don't really remember the whole next day, more or less if I ate anything or not. Great job portraying that, even though I am curious about what he missed with his solicitor and wish/hope he will remember soon so I can figure it out. It would be humorous imho if he discovers a marraige contract made with Susan's deceased father and his father without telling their wives, but that seems like a wee bit of a cop out.
    The little ministry part with Lavender's and Lisa's parents really helped lighten the agnsty mood of the chapter. Good job on that.

    As far as MaccieG, great job balancing compassion with bluntness. The portrayal of harry is a bit more emotional that I would have expected, but it wasn't OOC by any means; I just think that after being up for so long mourning he wouldn't really have the strength to feel strong emotions. Great job on the greatpower==greatresponsibility portrayal.


    There are only a few things I have issues with: Hermione is a witch. The ministry if full of witches and wizards used to their own customs on preparing/burying the dead. Hermione's parents have no contact (now that they have given away the owl) with the wizarding world for all intents and purposes. How the HELL are they supposed to get ahold of her body? Did they cast some sort of stasis charm on it or something to keep it fresh? Do they just dump it off in a coffin in their lawn? Give them an urn with ashes? Poor Emma Granger is probably going spare...

    I know the Weasley's are in a right state of shock, but surely they would try to get ahold of Harry somehow about funeral prep?

    The Scrimgeour part is the only thing that I really have problems with; you wanted him to be sucking up in hopes for a return favor, but it seemed half hearted in execution. I mean, the parts are there, it just seemed like lionface was making a half-assed effort. He did great on the part about the mailing problems, but he should be going on about how the minister would be delighted to meet Harry and how it would be a great honor, not just mention it like it was a chore. He wants to butter Harry up with this news, not add chores on his to-do list. He was going on about the good effects of the Order of Merlin, but he doesn't really play Harry's ego. The whole premise was very well thought out, but I just believe that you could have changed the execution slightly to achieve your effect a little better. Finally, his parting comment "...We said all along that we'll take a closer look at their cases when we could spare the resources..." could be changed to something more appeasing to Harry, liek "As we said initially, we will be looking closer at their cases now that we can spare the resources..." Good job on the hardball though.
     
  2. TheIllusiveOne

    TheIllusiveOne Raptured to Hell

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    Los Angeles
    I was quite disappointed in much of the McGonagall/Harry dialogue, especially this part.

    I always hate reading that crap. You're evil if you kill without feeling terrible, blah blah blah. It's a fucking war, and some people simply deserve to die. If McGonagall said that to me, I would have told her she's full of shit and made her leave. And I know I obviously can't know what I would do in that situation, as I have never killed anyone before, however I wouldn't have any problem killing a murderer or rapist.
     
  3. cubdom

    cubdom Guest

    Yojo, thanks for reviewing again. You and Nonjon both left me essays!

    Answering some questions: Harry's soul is fractured, but things heal over time. I don't know what would happen if he got Ak'd, but I'm not particularly concerned about that *crystal ball says: notgonnahappen*. So, there will be a bit of exploration of his status later on, but it is neither a major plot-point, or something that you should stay up late worrying about.

    I can assure you there will not be a marriage contract. I rarely like those kinds of stories, and there is already a Harry/Susan out there that deals heavily in that concept (JBern To Fight the Coming Darkness... excellent fic).

    On Harry's chats with McGonagall I wanted to have Harry be a little more stoic than he came out, but its difficult to accomplish that effect without making the text seem sparse and reading more like a transcript.

    On the Weasleys, Grangers and Funeral Prep - The Grangers would not even know who to contact in the Wizarding world. They are still in shock, but you can already see the seeds of anger being planted over a lack of communication from the Ministry. The Weasleys that know Harry the best are dead at this point. Percy doesn't know where he stands with Harry. He certainly ought to be concerned that Harry's pissed at him. Charlie barely knows Harry. As the older brothers they're taking care of the preparations. Also, Harry hasn't been in communication with anyone. His letters are being held at the Ministry and he's living in a Fidelius'ed house that Fred and George don't know the location of. Finally, have a little patience :) all in due time.

    The thing about Scrimgeour is that he's not a very good politician. He's trying his best to play the game, but the man was an Auror and politics came second after trying to stay alive. He presents the meeting with the Prime Minister the way he sees it because it doesn't really occur to him that anyone would think meeting a Muggle was something to get excited about. Even then, he tries to spin it positively. On the Order of Merlin, he tries playing to Harry's ego but gets nowhere. So, he focuses on Harry's real weakness, a desire for 'the greater good' and hits paydirt.

    IllusiveOne: First, it was honestly like two paragraphs. I know you like your Harry uncaring, unfeeling, and inhuman... but really. The boy killed seven people. Whether they deserved it or not doesn't change the fact that they are dead, and by Harry's own hand. If nothing else, it is the shock that he has the power to make permanent changes in people's alive status.

    McGonagall is not telling him he's evil, and if you had included the next two sentences in your quote, that would be plainly evident. She's verbally kicking him in the ass and making him talk. This is a juxtaposition of what he says and does. He says he doesn't want to talk or see people, but that's exactly what he wants to do most.
     
  4. nonjon

    nonjon Alumni Retired Staff

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    Oh come on. You're reading too much into that scene to begin with. McGonagall was just trying to get Harry to face what he was dealing with. I think it's an accurate assessment that if you kill and feel nothing, then you have a problem.

    You're interpreting that to mean she's saying if you kill then you should feel guilty. That's a completely different thing from being 'fine' or feeling nothing. You could feel proud you did something good. You could feel frustrated that you were forced to do something you deemed necessary. You could feel justified or angry or scared. Or you could feel giddy at having the power to take life at will and hunger to do it again. Life and existence is too simple and primal thing to take another's without considering your own.

    If he truly didn't at least go through the motions of what he did, then he wouldn't be human. And like McGonagall said 'evil beyond measure.' No one is saying he didn't do a good thing by killing those people. And if a similar situation comes up, I think most would hope he would kill again. But to brush off the actions, as if he'd just burnt his toast that morning and gone on with his day... that belittles his own life and everyone else's. Not just those who died by his hand.
     
  5. TheIllusiveOne

    TheIllusiveOne Raptured to Hell

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    I don't want Harry unfeeling or inhuman. I want Harry to be a smart kid who recognizes certain things have to happen in war. I have met many people involved in various wars, some of them killed, and many of them said they realized all along that they did what they had to do. And they were facing opponents who were just serving their country. I doubt the people who activate the electric chair/inject the poison into criminals who are executed feel guilty, I sure as hell wouldn't.


    And there's no need to get defensive or assume I like Harry to act like a Robot. Just because you think it's more realistic for Harry act like a bitch about killing people despite the fact that he killed Quirrell with his bare hands at eleven and didn't bat an eye doesn't mean everyone feels the same. Not to mention how stupid seeing McGonagall lecture Harry about the burdens of leadership at the end was. Anyone who blindly follows someone based on reputation deserves no respect.

    And lastly, the whole condicending attitude McGonagall seems to have when speaking to Harry leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    Btw, I'm trying to insult you or your fic, just mentioning what I didn't like. I do it all the time to Jbern's fics and everyone else here, if you don't want negative feedback then don't post your shit on an message board filled with people who have opinions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2006
  6. TheIllusiveOne

    TheIllusiveOne Raptured to Hell

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    Meh. I guess we took the convo to mean two different things, then. When Harry said he was fine, and she said it was worse then she feared, I felt she was trying to goad Harry into talking about how guilty he felt by making a connection to how people who feel fine after killing are evil.

    Why should he feel anything about killing them? Why should he waste his time feeling guilty and dwelling on terrible people who did terrible things? There is nothing wrong with him brushing off killing them, they deserved to die, the world is a better place without him. He didn't feel guilty when Quirrell died.
     
  7. nonjon

    nonjon Alumni Retired Staff

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    Yeah we did take it differently. I didn't think she was trying to goad him into guilt. This is Harry. He's probably going to feel more guilt than he deserves on principle. It was more that he wasn't actually dealing with it. Sort of putting it out of his mind and not thinking about it.

    Which is bad for him, if it comes up suddenly the next time he's needed to kill someone else in self defense.

    As for why he should feel anything about killing them, it's not so much 'them' he should feel about. McGonagall wasn't judging Harry at all (in my opinion). Nor considering 'them.' It was simply him feeling about killing. Not whether they deserved it in the slightest or whether he's done the world a massive favor by taking them out of it. Even if it's just random prison guard's first day flipping the switch on the electric chair. Having a role in taking a life should always at least make you examine it. Even if you simply decide it's nothing more than something distasteful you have to do. Or something fun or righteous even.

    Harry with Quirrell at 11 was more him simply being too young to really understand and address being partially responsible for destroying a possessed host. Or killing a man, depending on how you look at it.

    And I certainly don't think he should feel guilt either. But he should feel something. If it was true he was fine when he said he was fine, that'd be something. He was only saying that because he hadn't dealt with it nor did he want to. If he really didn't want to talk about it, he wouldn't have allowed McGonagall to goad him into it. And she probably wouldn't have pushed it. Until the next day.

    I think we can all agree forcing him to feel guilt just makes him a whiny, angsty wussy. Probably more human in all the ways humans suck. And it won't make for a story I'd have much interest in reading.

    Okay I'm rambling and I don't even remember what I was arguing about.
     
  8. Athenia

    Athenia Groundskeeper

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    I think in large part I agree with the fact that something was a little off in my mind about that conversation. However, two big differences stood out for me. The first was that I think it was McGonagall's way of acting, rather than Harry's response that made the scene bother me. Despite the fact that she was never a stellar head of house in canon, she is supposed to a Counselor of sorts to her house. More over, she has already been through one war, if not two. While I read the scene to be an attempt by her to knock Harry out of his rut, I think it was done poorly on her part. I feel that it somehow came across fairly condescendingly. A woman of her experience, in my mind, shouldn't make that mistake. If someone who had the same relationship with me that she does with Harry, spoke that way to me, I would, in retrospect -once I got my barings back - be fairly affronted and insulted by her attitude and presumption. Of course, I felt off about her character in HBP as well, so it may be more attributed to a realistic canon attitude than cubdom's writing.

    My second disagreement centers more on the main point I think you are trying to make:

    Overall, I think that someone who has seen the war coming as much as Harry has, should eventually feel this way. However, this is his first really conscious act of killing since everything major started. It's only the day after it all happened. Like the A/Ns said at the end of the chapter, this is the most angst filled chapter there is going to be. I expect Harry to come around to a similar point of view, but I think all soldiers of war who start out with Harry's attitude would at least pause after their first killing. It takes a little contemplation to get to the point you want Harry to be at. While you have sat here and replayed how you expect a Harry war to go out through fanfiction, you have more experience with the idea of killing Death Eaters than the character Harry himself has. Giving him a day to go through the 'shit I just killed someone' stage to the 'oh, but they were evil and should have died' stage isn't asking that much. So long as this Harry personality isn't stagnant, I don't think it is unrealistic or unappealing.
     
  9. ip82

    ip82 Prisoner

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    I don't understand what's the deal with this fic. For the most part it's pure Weasley-loving angst-fest... and I love it.

    Anyway, good new chapter. Finally we're done with funerals and are starting to see the appearance of political Harry and H/Susan relationship. Also, there's some interesting interaction with Grangers... Strange, but this is the first time I remember actually caring one iota for them... I guess it's just another freaky anomaly of this story.
     
  10. nonjon

    nonjon Alumni Retired Staff

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    Agreed for the most part. Something about this sadness and the whole jumping around from funeral to funeral is far more emotional than I'd expect liking. But I do. Certainly feels much more somber and melancholy than many angsty fics than try for this stuff.

    But I am very ready for some righteous anger or happier moments. Not fluffy or sweet necessarily, but much more of this tone will just depress me.

    Didn't feel like an exceptional chapter, just as good as the others. Looking forward to more.
     
  11. cubdom

    cubdom Guest

    ip82 and nonjon, I am excited that you both liked the chapter. It took longer than I wanted it to, but I really like it for some reason.

    I agree with nonjon, it is time to get on with the story... and the next chapter will move the plotline along, but I felt that it was important to play out the after effects of the battle. This is one area in which so many 'independent!Harry fics fall down. Something tragic happens, and then, rather than developing the character and the reasons for that character's reaction, we just skip right to the 'action scene' typically with a sentence like, "Harry decided life was too precious to spend moping at Privet drive, so he ran away to Diagon Alley, raided his vault, went to the store, bought everything you've ever seen in previous stories... and one more thing that was really cool, and then, with the help of a shopkeeper whom Harry inexplicably trusts, he turned into badass!Harry."

    Most 'independent' stories are that abrupt, and while there is certainly instant gratification in Harry's sudden turnaround, it comes off as poor writing and /or planning on behalf of the author. One of the rarest things in fanfiction is to find the story that moves its plot, develops its characters, and explains the characters actions without feeling abrupt.

    Soapbox aside, if I had not been publishing this chapter-by-chapter, I think I would have trimmed down the last three or four (post-battle) chapters because they stretch out too long in 'reading-time.' I have committed the popular sin of describing Harry's actions in too great of detail, and have allowed the plot to bog down a bit.

    Anyhow, as promised, the next chapter moves the plot along and covers several weeks. Harry will finally meet with his solicitor, and I will embrace a fandom cliche in all it's glory... Lord Potter :) will also enter into a most unique contract negotiation. The working title of chapter ten is: Business. So be sure to come back when it is ready.

    Finally, nonjon, thanks for your review on chapter eight about parenthesis and authorial laziness. You were correct, and I have atoned for my sin by fixing the offending sentence.

    Peace,
    Cubdom
     
  12. nonjon

    nonjon Alumni Retired Staff

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    Chapter-by-chapter does make for a very different story than if you'd tried to write the whole thing before posting. But I know for me at least, it's that feedback and response each chapter gets that fuels me into writing more. I don't know if I could be two hundred pages into a story and have the desire to keep writing, if I hadn't been getting regular feedback.

    One thing I've found is that it helps to have a person or few people you can discuss the entire fic, all spoil-laden plans and future plotlines, in detail with. It helps to keep your head on as to where you're going. And you know, once you're done, you can also then re-edit the whole thing, if you like. Shortening and recombining chapters, taking out plotholes that became apparent a half dozen chapters too late. Writing chapter-by-chapter is almost like finishing the entire story's first draft when you tag that fic "COMPLETE." You won't get as much feedback on a second draft, but nothing is stopping you from refining your fic later.
     
  13. CrashLTD

    CrashLTD Fifth Year

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    whoah. this guy likes to kill a lot of people...
     
  14. Hadoren

    Hadoren High Inquisitor

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    This is the best story I've read in a long LONG time. I was really getting bored of fanfiction, and then a gem like this comes. My only complaint is the slowness of the plot, but the author's addressed that, so they're no problems there. Still, it seems that the setting of the story makes an HP/SB pairing unlikely, and romance tends to weaken a good story. But still a really awesome story.
     
  15. cubdom

    cubdom Guest

  16. MadBiologist

    MadBiologist Second Year

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    This is the best "canon-friendly" fanfic in my opinion. Harry's behavior is what I would expect from canon Harry after having nearly all his friends killed and being a killer. Though he is completely clueless about how to fit in the wizarding society now, we have already been introduced to people who may help him to become more independent and to have his rightful place as a leader among wizards.

    The Lord Potter/Heir of Gryffindor cliché doesn't really bother me here. At least, the goblin was not licking Harry's boots when he remembered his name. However, the scene in which Harry panics when he learns that he is Slytherin's heir doesn't look right to me. I don't see the need for him to conceal the fact that he is Slytherin's heir, because everybody already knows that he is a Parseltongue. To claim being a founder's heir would rather strengthen his position in the wizarding world rather than weaken it.
     
  17. sirius009

    sirius009 Minister of Magic

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    see the "heir of gryffindor, slytherin, and every other family" bugs the shit outta me, i also don't like the idea of harry being really really ungodly rich. I hope harry gets over this pussy fest soon.
     
  18. Klael

    Klael Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    I haven't read all the comments here, so i dont know exactly what was touched upon; whatever. I'm the impatient sort. Also, i don't get the attitude of the last dude--pretty much everyone important in his life just died. I mean, give him a break--I'd probably react similarly in that situation. I doubt many would act tougher, and quite a few would probably collapse in despair while still others would probably go catatonic.

    I also hope that 13 days isn't too long. oh well, here goes.

    Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed the buildup in that uh-oh, what's-gonna-go-wrong-now stage. It's rare to find that aspect in fanfiction--the one where the audience knows exactly what's going to happen before it happens. In this case, it was very effectively used; I also liked your description of the fight scenes.

    It also seems that whenever harry finds himself surrounded by death eaters and voldemort and kills voldemort, that the other death eaters all subsequently, without fail, die. An odd phenomenom....

    Whatever. What came after the fight, namely the funeral, was well done. I like the description of Harry's thoughts during the matter. I also like the speech, though it was a tad corny--however, in this case, you can't really avoid that.

    I like how you're building him up as a crusader for change of some sort; It's also kind of cool that Harry's going to be the only gryffindor boy in his year, and one of the few left. I forget, how many of the DA were killed? Doesn't matter, it was well done.

    I'm pretty sure I have some sort of idea of where this story is gonna go, but i haven't been right about that sort of thing since i guessed that a specific OC character in another story was gonna die. So, i await the next chapter with baited breath. well, not really, but you get the idea.
     
  19. cubdom

    cubdom Guest

    Madbrad, thanks for the compliments. Your sentiment with regard to the Slytherin heir thing has been a common response, and one that I am kind of scratching my head at... I think the disagreement on how Harry would react stems from too much fanfiction. I think Harry's reaction is perfectly valid as a canon reaction because Harry's general attitude is Gryffindor=Good, Slytherin=Bad. Not terribly nuanced, but that's where I see his reactions to things right now. As the story moves on, Harry's going to realize that just because someone is a slytherin, doesn't make them bad.

    Killginny: Sorry.

    Well spotted. You're right. It's a cliche, but I wanted to move the story along and so the cliche is terribly useful. If you're looking for a story where the DEs just won't go away, I do recommend Resonance and Revolution by Greengecko.

    I'll caution you not to read too much into Harry's actions... or if you do, you'll need some patience. As for Harry being the only Gryffindor boy left, that will have an interesting effect on the story going forward.
     
  20. cubdom

    cubdom Guest

    Chapter Eleven is posted over at FF.net

    http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2923561/11/

    I hope you all enjoy the quidditch.

    I would also like to thank Myst for nominating me for the newcomer of the year award on the awards thread. I'm glad you think that highly of my story.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2007
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