1. The DLP Story Competition is back!!!!11one! Get the details in the announcement and break out your favorite editor, because it's time to enter the December 2017 competition.

    Don't let us down, Guest.
    Dismiss Notice

Israel/Palestine Mega Thread

Discussion in 'Politics' started by mknote, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. mknote

    mknote 1/3 of the Note Bros. DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,347
    Location:
    Melbourne, Florida, United States
    Source

    ...

    Okay, let me say a few things first. I make the occasional post on the Politics forum when I think I have something witty or pertinent to say, but for the most part I tend to avoid it because a) politics isn't a subject that generally interests me and b) emotions tend to run high here, much more so than when discussing fan-made stories of a fictional work.

    I have also tended to be a supporter of Israel, even though I have seen them do some questionable things. I think that the Jewish people have had a rough time of it for the past few... millennia... and so they deserve a bit of a break.

    I can no longer say that.

    This is the first news story in a long time that has made me angry. Angry that it's only now being discovered in a world with the technology we have. Angry at a culture that knows what it's like to be persecuted to act this way in such an open manner. Angry that an ally to the US does this so brazenly and yet we're still allied with them.

    This isn't some antisemitic rhetoric, this is the UN Committee on the Rights of a Child saying this. This government is throwing children into prison for 20 years for the horrendous crime of throwing stones. Nine year olds are being dragged in shackles before a military court. Nine year olds are being used as human shields, for fuck's sake! This is what I expect from the Taliban, not a sovereign nation that my nation is allied with!

    I'm sorry, I have to step away, cool down, and collect my thoughts. I'll leave this here for people to discuss. Maybe I'm seeing this wrong and this is just a knee-jerk reaction, but goddamn am I pissed off right now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2013
  2. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat Prestige DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    138
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Carolina
    High Score:
    2,719
    Well all Ill ask here is simply, is there any proof? Of any of this? This is not me trying to defend Israel or bash on it but I simply find it incredibly difficult to believe between the mountain of people I personally know who were over there on their tours and the technology around today that such public displays like the children shielding the tanks have never once been seen or mentioned. Something about all of this just seems very off to me.
     
  3. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Order Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    800
    I am Jacks complete and utter lack of surprise.

    This is what Israel does, it's what Israel has done for years and it is what Israel will continue to do until the last "settlement" borders are drawn and there is no such thing as Palestine left.

    It will continue to happen because America will continue to support Israel and there is no one willing and able to stand up to America and Israel for the sake of the Palestinian people.

    It will continue to happen and most people will continue to look the other way and pretend nothing is wrong, because anyone who doesn't is an anti-semite.
     
  4. Orm Embar

    Orm Embar Auror

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2008
    Messages:
    605
    Location:
    On the shores of Selidor
    Fuck the whole sordid mess of rivalries and religious vendettas that is the Middle East.
     
  5. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,743
  6. mknote

    mknote 1/3 of the Note Bros. DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,347
    Location:
    Melbourne, Florida, United States
    Yeah, I agree that it isn't exactly news that Israel was a dick. I didn't know it was this bad though, which is why I posted.

    I think hope that there is a point in which the US would stop supporting such a government. I would hope that this would be that point, but considering the rather blasé attitude here on DLP, though, I kind of doubt it.

    It changed my opinion, at least.
     
  7. Ravnius

    Ravnius Auror

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    687
    Location:
    South U.S.
    Not to try to flame this, but hasn't Palestine, in the history of this stupid conflict, done a LOT worse?
     
  8. Banta

    Banta The Chosen One DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,201
    They both have, which is part of why the entire "peace process" is an absolute joke.
     
  9. Ravnius

    Ravnius Auror

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    687
    Location:
    South U.S.
    How does one even go about ending a war that's been on for as long as we've had writing?
     
  10. Banta

    Banta The Chosen One DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,201
    Making Israel not a Jewish state would be a good step, but that's never going to happen.
     
  11. Ravnius

    Ravnius Auror

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    687
    Location:
    South U.S.
    Not to be disparaging, but I really don't see how that would change anything. Explanation, pl0x?
     
  12. Vir

    Vir Centauri Ambassador Prestige DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    May 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Canada
    High Score:
    1,907
    I'm dying of laughter here. You seem to live in some weird world where morality has a place in warfare. Where there are such things as "honour" and "duty." The only role those two concepts have in war is to get people killed.

    Rules of war are only convenient for so long.

    Yeah, Israel has used children as human shields. Palestine has done it too. And they've used them as suicide bombers. And they've launched rocket attacks from schools, hospitals, and residential neighbourhoods with the hopes that Israel will retaliate and cause some collateral damage so that they can score points with people. You know, the same people who will get outraged and then donate some money to a front NGO which will then be used to buy weapons and bombs.

    This conflict is old. If you think that either side is in the wrong, then you're the only one that is mistaken. There is a history of everyone around Israel attacking Israel. There is a history of Israel accepting the two-state solution, and the Palestinians responding with some rocket attacks aimed at Israeli schools.

    Does Israel provoke Palestine? Of course they do. Domestically it's in their short term interest to do so. Do they want a long-term solution? Of course they do. Will they get it? No.

    Personally, I blame the proportional representation system that they have going. It allows crazy-right wing parties to hold the balance of power in government, and therefore cause all kinds of problems.

    Israel being a Jewish state isn't the problem. Their electoral system is. As for Palestine? Their problem isn't so much the Jews, but rather the problem is their own internal issues.
     
  13. mknote

    mknote 1/3 of the Note Bros. DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,347
    Location:
    Melbourne, Florida, United States
    Yes, as a matter of fact, I do live in such a mindset. And I don't know why you're laughing at that – I'd personally be ashamed if I had your mindset. When war is absolutely necessary, we must have rules to keep it civilized – to do anything else would be, frankly, barbaric.
     
  14. Vir

    Vir Centauri Ambassador Prestige DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    May 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Canada
    High Score:
    1,907
    Man. We're barbarians. I'm honestly thankful that this war hasn't gotten dirty yet. When it comes to International Politics, there is no such thing as morality.

    I wonder why Palestine hasn't gotten its hands on nerve gas, or mustard gas, or a dirty bomb. I mean, Israeli internal security (shin-bet) is awesome, and external security (Mossad) is great at their jobs, but there's only so much that can be done.
     
  15. Grubdubdub

    Grubdubdub Supreme Mugwump

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,604
    Having recently arrested a 12 year boy (2 weeks ago or so), I can say he was freed after 48 hours. His parents will pay a fine that amounts to a salary of a month or three. However, I do acknowledge that there many cases of almost ulimited-time arrests that last for months without trial in "national security" cases. Obviously, it's mainly bullshit - but it's a hard to claim that the US doesn't do the same and worse. About human shields: proof please. I was never instructed to do that, the opposite really.

    Conclusion: the situation is fucked up, and so fucked up things happen. Israel is at fault for many things, but I really do think and hope we can fix that internally.
     
  16. Vir

    Vir Centauri Ambassador Prestige DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    May 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Canada
    High Score:
    1,907
    Some photos made the rounds a few years ago of Israeli soldiers using some Palestinians as human shields. That's where it comes from, despite the IDF pretty much ordering otherwise.
     
  17. Hashasheen

    Hashasheen Totally Sirius

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    3,493
    Location:
    Bristol
    ... I wasn't aware that writing was only a hundred years old. :sherlock:

    *shrugs* As one of the resident locals, all I can say is that it's a fucking mess. Morality doesn't come into it, neither side is better than the other, it's a bleeding ground that has basically turned both sides into Lord of the Flies and the only way it's going to end is long in the future, once Israel is done "re-settling" everything they want or if the Palestinians manage to outbreed the Israelis within their own borders to the point where there are more Israeli Arabs and Palestinians than Israeli Jews.

    I've often been curious about how things are going to be going forward with the Israelis and their burgeoning Orthodox population, since those guys are a major drain on their economy and military (especially since they have the most kids), and I can't see it going anywhere but even worse for everyone.
     
  18. Riley

    Riley Alchemist DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,333
    Location:
    On The Eastern Seaboard, USA
    As someone not from the local area, do the Orthodox Jews have to serve in the IDF as well?
     
  19. Hashasheen

    Hashasheen Totally Sirius

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    3,493
    Location:
    Bristol
    The Ultra Orthodox and the Orthodox don't have to I believe. Something about their role as religious scholars exempting them back to the founding of the State of Israel. Some do serve in special units, I know that much. And of course, there's the Israeli equivalent of military chaplains...
     
  20. Riley

    Riley Alchemist DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,333
    Location:
    On The Eastern Seaboard, USA
    So with the rise of Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox, is it becoming harder to field men and women in the IDF or is it not that noticeable of a growing population? (Sorry to derail thread)