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Israel/Palestine Mega Thread

Discussion in 'Politics' started by mknote, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. Evil Shnitzel

    Evil Shnitzel High Inquisitor

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    1) You claimed before that if people want to discriminate against AJ as part of Qatari government they should also ban PSG and Qatar Airways. I just agreed, the way PSG is run should not be legal.
    2) You implied that Israel is similar to Erdogan/Chavez and will not hesitate to use such measures.
    3) AJ have practiced in this for years now and kind of perfected the system. Their news in English are toned down and have a liberal theme (as can be seen in AJ+ videos) unlike the news in Arabic. Also, a lot of organizations are not banned in Europe/USA' that doesn't make them not-terrorist. If I'm not mistaken (welcome to correct me on this) Hezbollah is also not banned in many countries and was not banned in US until few years ago. People were walking with their flags in center of London recently and nobody gave a fig. I'm not claiming AJ are terrorists themselves, but they are under total control of a state that does financially support it.
    About the Prime Minister, you are mistaken with the previous one, who withdrew his support once the violence and racist attitude within the fan group grew. But hey if there is a chance to bash Israel why not eh? By "condemned murderer" I assume you mean the soldier that shot dead the injured terrorist. Yup, you are totally right on this one. The inciting violence thing is mutual and hopefully eventually the government would be replaced and things would change. Media outlets like AJ contribute to feelings of isolation and hatred towards the country, which just makes it easier for assholes like Netanyahu to push more for nationalistic policies.
    4) Well if it's the only powerful Arab outlet we should keep it no? Even when it's 100% wrong? Sorry that's not an excuse.
    5) Where does he say it is because of the Saudi's? He mentions them once as an afterthought, not as the direct reason. As I said previously, it is most likely a publicity stunt for the Israeli public, which AJ btw is happy to use, that just gives them more ammunition and ground to misportray the events.

    Also, Egypt, Iraq, India and USA had problems with AJ in the past too, sometimes suspending its broadcast and arresting (in one case at least) its journalists for inciting hatred. So not only Israel and Gulf states.
    As I mentioned in my first reaction to this post - I am conflicted about this decision. It is a slippery slope and I am interested in all opinions having representation in the media. AJ though make it extremely different. I don't remember where you are from (Scotland?) but just imagine seeing lies and mistruths about your country daily and seeing the effect it has on neutral people who read this. It is not an enviable place to be in.
     
  2. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    So US intelligence agencies are dumb enough not to know about AJ Arab parts, and focus only on those in English. I'm also curious. Literally none of the sourced I saw claimed Bibi stopped supporting the team. Please. Do link.

    Oh. Oh. He mentions thr Saudis as a justificaton, but it's not a justificaton justification for reals. Not at all. So it doesn't count. K.

    Egypt. Iraq. Those Lumineers of Justice. And I'm sure India is completely fair with people it deems Pakistani supporters.

    I mean. I never claimed anything about Israel arresting anyone over minor things. Why you're so focused on that? The Chavez/Erdogan route is obviously start closing down newspapers it dislikes or support other side. Chavez wasn't Maduro. Stop insisting on this. Chavez himself never went full crazy goat. And erdogan isn't jailing Kurds for being Kurds. Yet.

    Look. Israel claims to be a democracy. A free and fair and complete one. Unilaterally banning a news channel that tis widely seen as the Arab's main voice, without proper trials condemning it for crimes recently, doing completely and not just, you know the Arab part since the English one is apparently decent, is fucking fishy. It's pretty obvious doesn't really prize free press. Had it prized, it could come up with a much stronger list of proof and investigations of those events you mentioned and released it. It doesn't seem to think it should justify itself. Finally, the fact that Israel didn't completely cut ties with Qatar, has ties with the Saudis and other things, show this isn't about sponsoring terrorism but shutting down media you dislike.
     
  3. Evil Shnitzel

    Evil Shnitzel High Inquisitor

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    I'm not claiming that I or Israeli government know something that "US intelligence agencies" don't know. As I stated previously, not banning or doing something about a problem doesn't necessarily mean that a problem doesn't exist.
    About the football team - I assumed you meant Olmert, the previous Prime Minister, who is a famous supporter. Bibi is apparently a supporter himself (nobody really considers him as a football fan) but here is a quote of him disavowing the racist arson of the offices of the team after they signed two Muslim players -
    link - http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/08/world/meast/israel-football-arson/index.html?hpt=imi_c2
    I agree that not enough is done about them.

    The guy who briefly mentioned Saudis as I have previously stated (again) does not mention them as the reason for the whole thing. He mentions the recent tensions on Temple Mountain though as I said, I believe it is a publicity stunt. Not even sure that they will be able to carry it out.

    What's a "Maduro"? And I am not insisting on that, just looking at you bringing up those two guys and saying that Israeli government is becoming like them. In my opinion that is quite far fetched. Certain elements spring up recently but it's still a very long way to go. You take one incident which didn't even happen yet and blow it out of proportion. They are btw two of the most hated figures here, I think even more than Putin or the Iran leaders.

    Again, it didn't happen. This comms Minister might have said few things and released a shutdown order but since as you have stated Israel is a democracy this will probably not fly down with the court and nothing will happen. Reminds a lot of your previous post in this thread when you brought up another populist law which obviously didn't pass and was nothing more than a publicity stunt.
     
  4. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    From "publicity stunt" to "publicity stunt" it's how we got Venezuela. I'm not even exaggerating. Chavez relied on whipping up crowds against an "enemy", kept whipping them up against the Courts and Press for a decade until he had clout enough clout to just do it. The fact that all of them have the stamp of approval of the governing parties and PM should worry you. A lot. But if you want to keep dismissing those attacks and attempts at eroding institutions as ultimately inconsequential, hey. That's on you.

    Israel isn't the US. It doesn't have nearly the history, the flexibility and checks and balances to sustain the attacks on is it's institutions of the like of Trump. And Bibi has been at it a lot longer and more about than Trump. Of course, you might also think this is an exaggeration and Israel institutions did not suffer at all under Bibi. I do find it interesting that if an Arab channel does it, it's supporting and inciting terrorism. Banning them is a feasible answer. Of the government does it, it's a publicity stunt and ultimately incosequential and people worried about are ultimately blowing smoke out of their ass.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  5. Evil Shnitzel

    Evil Shnitzel High Inquisitor

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    People are worried and protesting this bullshit daily (including le me) in front of Attorney General's house. Sooner or later (hopefully sooner) Bibi will have to resign (remember, 3 very serious investigations). You don't have much faith in our judicial system but I do have some; after Prime Minister and a President who were sent to jail. Bibi can cling to his seat but once again, this is not Venezuela. Sorry if you are Venezuelan citizen and you suffer/ed.
     
  6. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    Brazilian. Seen Venezuela from close. Seen Judiciary cleaning up here, only to be stopped from the most extreme cleaning by corrupt and self serving Legislative and Executive. You're right I'm definitely projecting. Good luck for you. At least Israel has some hope, it seems.