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Israel/Palestine Mega Thread

Discussion in 'Politics' started by mknote, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. Azira

    Azira High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    I don't understand how reality works? I live this reality, you're the one sitting in your tower condemning and judging things you don't understand. Palestinians and Israeli's should be judged and treated equally. Anything else is bigotry/racism.

    ---------- Post automerged at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------

    A great post that added absolutely nothing to the discussion.
     
  2. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    So the superior Jewish State will teach the lowly Arabs how to better govern? Israel doesn't want Arabs serving en masse because it doesn't trust its own citizens. Now why would that be? 60% of the Jewish population in Israel think it should receive preferential treatment from the State. They also defend Israel as a Jewish State, which is not what was agreed on.

    Finally, settlements constructions were never stopped on decades and now Israel wants to flagrantly absorb such territories. When the entire world tells you to stop being a shit, you don't double down.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divided-society/
     
  3. Azira

    Azira High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Arabs-fight-line-unbreakable-blood-pact.html

    Arabs serve in the IDF. Most are exempt because obviously it causes issues, like other sects of society are (Haredim, the disabled), but those who request to serve, are gladly accepted. Muslims have risen to the highest ranks in the IDF, and are never discriminated against.

    Israeli Arabs enjoy full rights in Israel, and claiming anything else is just an absolute lie.

    "Doesn't trust it's own citizens" - What? Every Israeli citizen, EVER SINGLE ONE, can vote in elections, serve in the army, contribute to the economy, do anything.

    Stop. Perpetuating. Lies.
     
  4. TMD

    TMD Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    What discussion? The 'woe-is-me, Israel is always the victim' discussion, where you try to justify being judgemental of Palestine because they're apparently 'equal'?

    Yeah nah, when Israel systematically oppresses and abuses a people, starves them, murders women and children, contains them in ever smaller pockets of land while aggressively expanding via illegal settlements...it doesn't get to then claim 'equality'.
     
  5. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    What about en masse did you not read? Also, lovely. There's a difference between actual reality and what's on paper. Blacks in the US North could vote. We're theoreticslly full citizens.

    Arabs in Israel are forced to live in ghettos. And half Israel population wants to kick them out.

    We can always play ball and see how Israel treats Palestinians under occupied territories, who are de facto Israeli citizens. Do you really claim they have full rights? Same as any Israeli citizens?
     
  6. Azira

    Azira High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    Holy shit you're dumb.
     
  7. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    Holy shit you're all bluster and no argument. Let's look at your arguments:
    'Israel is a perfectly working democracy', ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem, 'Israel is a perfect democracies and everyone is fully equal, despite everything pointing out agaisnt that', ad hominem, ad hominem. Not once you were able to come up with facts or an actual argument to defend your claims.
     
  8. Azira

    Azira High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    I actually won't argue with you because I did provide facts, but you dare not open your eyes to them. Continue on with your life, being an ignorant little sheep as you are.

    "What is in reality vs what is on paper" Yeah, my reality is the one I experience and I am telling you about, yet you refuse to believe it. You think Muslims in the IDF is some sort of fiction? Arab citizens being equal in every way is fiction? Please.

    I'd like to hear about these Arab ghettos inside Israel, also. Source it or shut the fuck up.

    Palestinians who live in the West Bank or Gaza are not citizens of Israel. Those who have a Citizenship of Israel, are citizens of Israel. It's actually a pretty simple concept.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  9. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    Oh no, they just live unders Israeli military, pay taxes to Israel, are managed by Israeli government much more than whatever the PA might say, etc

    Violent Arab ghetto shows Israel's seamy underside

    Palestinians in Israel: Trapped in the ghetto

    "The government estimates that just over 50 percent of Arab families live under the poverty line."
    I want you to read this and tell that's what full citizenship is like that.

    Your Prime Minister football team has a SA version of its fans running around terrorising people, and very little was done, de facto.
     
  10. Evil Shnitzel

    Evil Shnitzel High Inquisitor

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    Azira.. just stop man...
    There are Arab citizens of Israel and there are the Palestinians. While the Arab citizens have the same rights as Jewish citizens they do suffer from racial discrimination, specifically when they try to find a normal job and rent/buy an apartment.
    Palestinians, as mentioned countless times before, suffer from the occupation and all of its consequences. The PA, while not exactly Israeli friendly at the moment do cooperate with IDF and other security forces, their police stop many attacks and share intelligence.
    About the trial - happy that justice was done, hopefully he will receive a lengthy sentence and not be pardoned. Many times, Israelis proclaim that they have the only democracy in Middle East and the "the world's most moral army" (which is quite illogical statement); it is time then to stop attacking the democracy in the country (courts, free press) and the high ranking officers in the army who just try to uphold the values on which it was built.
     
  11. Azira

    Azira High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
  12. Azotez

    Azotez Seventh Year

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    Aaaand... It's gone... Thank god, what a shitpost. Thank you moderator. And you shitposter - You know who you are.

    We are many that care very much, indeed. Though, it might be hard to spot, and I wouldn't hold that against you, considering the trend on media.
    This story is like the holocaust denial all over again, now from an UN organ. I am not at all surprised to see mainly muslim countries voting against this. Muslim countries using UN against democratic nations to unravel history and rewrite it. Fantastic!

    Resolutions like these seriously damage the credibility and legitimacy of the UN. The more the Islamic agenda is pushed the worse it gets...

    Who needs enemies like these when you got friends like Obama? This is what the Jews of Israel is up against. If Israel falls you can be certain there won't many Jews left in a hundred years, with the current trend.

    But take comfort in the fact that you can assume that roughly 50% of americans still like Israel by voting Trump.

    ---------- Post automerged at 18:29 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------

    Also, and please keep those link coming! Even if no one is responding, you can be sure that at least some are clicking and reading.
     
  13. Azira

    Azira High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-rejects-libermans-offer-of-aid-for-disarmament/


    Too bad. I think this was a reasonable thing that would've helped both sides move forward, but guess not.
     
  14. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    It wouldnt. Hamas without guns wouldn't exist and Israel knows this. And at the same time Israel was pushing for the US to stop supporting the two state solution, which no one in Palestine is a big fan of.

    This was just a meaningless attempt by the Israeli government to get some good press after being broadly criticised by governments across the world, from the Resolution, to the decision to keep building, to the decision of allowing the Israeli government to take Palestinian private land to the push against the two state solution.

    Just a cynical attempt by an aggressively anti Palestinian government to get some free points for pointing out that yes, the terrorist group is armed. If he meant anything he would have made the reconstruction offer to the areas controlled by the PLO who are almost as fucked.

    At best this would be just like the withholding of taxes, which Bibi seems to be doing almost once every year.
     
  15. Swirly Mango

    Swirly Mango DA Member

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    From a realpolotik standpoint, giving up all possibility of resistance is actual sovereign suicide against another nation that is willing to dominate you whenever it fears.

    Israel's olive branch is a lie. Consider if China woild give up all rights to the South China Sea if the USA agreed to dismantle its nuclear arsenal and agree to complete nuclear non-proliferation. Yes. Straight away, because it gains so much more.

    I dunno maybe I'm speaking out of my ass, but trading your defence for a promise that could never even appear because of woops there goes the economy seems farcical.
     
  16. Azira

    Azira High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    How is hurling rockets and building terror tunnels into Israel "defence"? Nobody asked them to give up all their guns, just the stuff they were using to perform terror attacks on Israel. And to boot they would receive incredible support and good-will from the Israeli government.

    If you are willing to call any attempt from a high ranking official like Lieberman, who HAS the capacity to enact such promises as "a lie" and a "meaningless attempt to get some good press", then there really is no point to this whole thing.

    This offer is a REAL offer that would benefit both sides (Israel and the Palestinian people) - the only people who see this as not beneficial are terrorists (Hamas).

    EDIT: Also trying to understand this irrelevant China comparison, because you cannot compare China/US relations to Israel/Palestinian relations at all. Hamas keeps negotiating as if it's in a position of power, when it clearly isn't. This is a completely reasonable deal and their unwillingness to take it is telling.

    Also, "If we wanted to be like Singapore we would be like Singapore" is an incredible statement if you take it at face value - that means Hamas is happy with its current state of Gaza? Insane.

    This type of deal can easily be brokered by a third party if Hamas is so afraid Israel "wouldn't hold up its end", as has been done multiple times in the past.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  17. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    Except Gaza elected Hamas as its representative. Except that the Palestinian people don't trust Israel and much less the current government. Except that Israel offers this while trying to push the end of the two state solution. Except that the Israeli government just approved a slew of measures that are incredibly prejudicial to particular Palestinian interests. Except that Israel abuses any kind of power it has over the Palestinian, as the afore mentioned budget witholding.

    Context. Putin 'attempts' to reach deal with Ukraine once in a while. Why should the Ukrainian trust him?
     
  18. Azira

    Azira High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    None of anything you said makes sense. Yes Gaza elected a terrorist organization as it's government (LOL) so Israel tries to deal with it as best as it can.

    I agree that the settlements are dumb and I wish they didnt exist, but this is a step in the right direction trying to atleast get Gaza some autonomy. It's about baby steps and building trust through different measures and initiatives, which Hamas is clearly unable to do.

    If you just want to see everything as anti and impossible, again, there really is no point to this whole thing. Maybe offer an alternative then?

    Also nice whataboutism. Irrelevant.
     
  19. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    Pretty sure that defense isn't really going to accomplish much in the scenario where there's an actual invasion. Wheras the US is stronger than China. Your example doesn't really work.
     
  20. Azira

    Azira High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    And it's not even defence. Both him and Invictus somehow managed to say it was complete disarmament ("Hamas without guns" "no option of defence") which to me shows they didn't bother reading the article (classic), since Liberman is specifically talking about rocket attacks (which are inherently not defensive) and terror tunnels (which are also not defensive at all).