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It's An Owners Market - Game Over!

Discussion in 'Little Italy' started by Regfan, Mar 23, 2017.

  1. Tammy

    Tammy Muggle

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    Sorry. I have back to back classes on Mondays and then meetings. I'm home now, give me one second.

    ---------- Post automerged at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:21 PM ----------

    It's amusing that while I was trying to work out the auction math and clear partnerships from it, Fluffy was discrediting me and that and used that first thing to clear Koalas.

    Fluffy what more suspicion was I under than koalas?

    I went over it last night and typhon agreed it couldn't be koalas.

    vote fluffiness

    ---------- Post automerged at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 PM ----------


    I don't understand this logic. How would koalas have been a difficult lynch. He only wasn't the lynch the day before because he didn't have the money to outbid Jan. He was pretty close to being the lynch the day that rubicon was lynched. Why wouldn't he have been easy?

    I don't think you guys thought there would be a counterclaim. Your plan was masterful though! Have Nacho remove both of you from the lynch pool the day before lylo and set up some credibility with the watcher/doctor thing, that way the next day's "guilty" would look credible. I could kick myself for just buying it the day before when it should have sounded odd that you didn't use doc the day before and just happened to save it for the next day when you could get "watched".

    ---------- Post automerged at 01:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:33 PM ----------

    It makes a lot of sense for scum to get the protective roles to keep them out of town's hands.
     
  2. Koalas

    Koalas Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    I think we call that a slip.
     
  3. Tammy

    Tammy Muggle

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    That isn't even close to the progression of events. Nacho made a case on me, then claimed to have watched jan and saw koalas and tied the two of us together. You went one of you guys is scum, don't know which. Then you later kept saying it was me and koalas, you discredited my attempts to solve it through auction math, but you never voted (yes, I know Typhon said not to at one point), you never really looked like you were trying to solve it, you never pushed it very hard, you just kept soft-pushing it, which makes sense you had to be careful not to tip it too hard and have typhon go the wrong way.

    What is easier is a matter of opinion. Nacho has to be careful in the way he goes after me. He tried to tie Koalas and me together as a matter of convenience, directly lying like that with a claim would not go over well with me and he knows that. Making a fluffy case on "paranoia" sure. Vira only voted me that last day because she thought I was one of the only few who could outbid Jan, and then yes proclaimed me scum as she died. If you were so sure I was scum, why didn't you vote me that last day?

    Nacho did exactly what he thought would give you guys the win yesterday. He rarely loses 1v1's and he didn't expect to have a counterclaim.

    I was pretty clear in wanting people to vote nacho yesterday.

    you're right I am.
     
  4. his fluffiness

    his fluffiness Second Year

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    You really believe in scum slips?

    My point is that Nacho went after the harder target to lynch (you) because tammy is his partner, and if I had voted once he voted you, Tammy jumps ship and ends.
     
  5. Tammy

    Tammy Muggle

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    You know you were just waiting for Typhon to vote koalas, which it looked like he was going to do, so you would have permission to vote koalas.

    ---------- Post automerged at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

    So Fluffy buys doctor on day two, but just happens not to use it until night three.

    On day four, Nacho watches Typhon who just happens to be visited by Fluff who just happens to save his doctor for a night, which does two great things. Removes both of them from the lynch pool that day, gives Fluffy a reason to stop "suspecting" nacho, and sets up Nacho as being a reliable watcher

    so that in lylo he can claim to have watched Jan and seen the killer in koalas. He expected the game to be over yesterday. He wasn't expecting a tracker claim to track the person he was faking a guilty on. It was a perfect plan.
     
  6. his fluffiness

    his fluffiness Second Year

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    Notice how they kill Miner and Jarizok (not the most obvious kills) until they see doc was used, and then they go kill top targets like Jan and Typhon.

    ---------- Post automerged at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 PM ----------

    Because all you had to do was watch whoever was the most obvious kill (universal townread Typhon) until doc tried to save him.
     
  7. Tammy

    Tammy Muggle

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    You had to off kill. If you had killed Jan night two after getting doc night two, you wouldn't be able to claim doc to look town; that would just make it obvious you didn't need to worry about the doc. Likewise, you had to continue to "watcher dodge" so that Nacho would look town if and when he claimed it.
     
  8. his fluffiness

    his fluffiness Second Year

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    Koalas, reread early fontisian and tell me how that slot is town.
     
  9. Koalas

    Koalas Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    Building a town circle looks pretty town to me. What did you do?
     
  10. his fluffiness

    his fluffiness Second Year

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    She was advocating plans that look good but are scum favored.

    She has 16 posts.

    Of those posts

    6 are filler.
    3 are bad mechanics (advocating getting daykill early)


    So she has 7 actual posts.
    Let's go into them.
     
  11. Tammy

    Tammy Muggle

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    Getting day kill out there early is a fine plan. Arguing that someone is scum due to viewing mechanics differently is probably the weakest thing to argue someone is scum for. It's easy and shallow.

    Anyway, I am getting ready to cook dinner and then I have a thing tonight. I'm happy to answer anything and will be able to check in quite regularly, but I won't be tethered to my computer refreshing for questions anymore, but I will be around.
     
  12. Regfan

    Regfan Muggle

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    Vote Count 6.2

    Tammy (1): His Flufiness (L-1)
    His Flufiness(1): Tammy (L-1)

    Not Voting (1): Koalas

    Days end early when a majority of players vote to lynch somebody. If a majority is not reached at deadline or if a majority of the players vote for no lynch, the day will end without a lynch. With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch.

    Deadline is in ~28 Hours of this post when that countdown link expires.
     
  13. his fluffiness

    his fluffiness Second Year

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    Her are her 7 real posts. I've marked down the spots where she quoted someone, so we can have some context.

    What do we see in these posts?

    1: fontisian has no scumreads through two days of playing and a scum lynch.

    2: fontisian has a lot of townreads, but no reasoning behind those townreads.

    Font's whole presence was a whole of of nothing disguised to look like something. This is not town font.

    ---------- Post automerged at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ----------

    Getting Daykill when scum are guaranteed to get it is a good plan? Well, it is if you're scum.

    And I have a good opinion of fonti, so to see her make a mistake that is so bad but looks good on the surface immediately makes me suspicious.
     
  14. Tammy

    Tammy Muggle

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    And I never really know what to do in lylo; I'm rarely ever here and it's been years since I was and wasn't the deciding vote. I mostly like to have people answer my questions and leave it, so that's how I'm approaching it here, but if you need something more from me let me know.

    I know Fluff is lying here, and it just seems so obvious now in retrospect. He played the perfect kind of lay low all game. He voted Tom when the case had already been made and it would have been worse for him to be around and avoid it. He got the doctor but supposedly held onto for one night when Nacho supposedly watched Typhon and saw him getting the doc which cleared them both and gave them towncred, and then in lylo tried to use that cred from the day before to fake a guilty. It's just so obvious.

    Yesterday during the 1v1 he discredited my attempt to figure out the game through math. He kept pointing out that it was me/koalas but never voted. He had to be careful when dealing with Typhon and was just waiting for Typhon to vote so he had permission to vote. It's tricky when you're trying to manipulate town to go your way. He never showed any type of paranoia or concern that it could be anyone else yesterday. Just me and koalas.

    Today he has to come up with some other bullshit reasoning. His suggestion that it was our plan all along to get koalas lynched makes no sense because if we were partners and we wanted koalas lynched yesterday, I could have just corroborated his story or claimed another track. There was a much easier route if that was our plan.

    But there was no plan, he wasn't expecting a counterclaim, and Fluff's going after mechanics that were fine and could have been debated in thread, is a sign of how weak he knows this argument is.
     
  15. Koalas

    Koalas Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    Yup. I've settled.

    Tammy's been a paranoid thought in the back of my head since yesterday. Put Nacho in a 1v1 with me then if that fails Tammy is cleared. It's just so unnecessary. I had a terrible game. If Tammy had kept quiet I'd have almost definitely been lynched. If she collaborated I'd be 100% lynched.

    Meanwhile fluff has been near absent and anti-town when he's actually been active (lylo). Vote placement looks terrible, posting history doesn't look good and frankly the complete refusal to answer the questions he's being asked is rage inducing.

    End of the day I'd rather lose to a convoluted scum plot then scum that lurked to end game.

    Lynch: his fluffiness

    Good game.
     
  16. his fluffiness

    his fluffiness Second Year

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    Well gg scum
     
  17. Nachomamma8

    Nachomamma8 Muggle

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    No more posting.

    -Regfan
     
  18. Regfan

    Regfan Muggle

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    End of Day Vote Count

    His Fluffiness (2): Koalas, Tammy (Lynch)
    Tammy (1): His Fluffiness(L-1)

    Not Voting (0):

    When re-entering the auction hall they noticed two cakes on the table, with a note attached to both of them, it appeared that someone had taken pity on them and given them a hint. One cake said "The murderers are Nacho & Fluff" while the other said "The murderers are Tammy & Koalas", they'd imagined that eating the correct cake would be a celebration cake of them catching the murderers while the wrong cake would likely be death by poison. But wait, they'd just lynched Nacho yesterday and that cheap bastard had flipped mafia.

    "This'll be easy!" said Koalas while starting to gouge himself on the cake attached with Nacho & Fluff.
    "What have you just done? It wasn't me! Something is very wrong here" shrieked His Fluffiness.
    "Tammy join me eating some cake" Koalas proclaimed Koalas ignoring His Fluffiness's whimpers.
    "Um, I'm allergic to gluten" Tammy had squeaked out like a 12 year old girl which was met with a nod of belief from Koalas.

    Suddenly Koalas wasn't feeling so good, he was seeing things, girlfriends ghosts of the past in fact. Koalas felt himself thinking "Who organized all the dead players into a choir and got them to sing? Ooh ooh ooh, shut up. Shut up players from the past" but this unfortunately wasn't enough to prevent his hallucinations.

    "Ahhh, ahhhhhhhh. I'm so sorry! I really don't like being a murderer, Nacho dragged me into this business and I promised him I'd bring it home" Tammy stated while trying the rope around Fluff.


    His Fluffiness the Vanilla Townie was lynched on Day Six.
    Koalas the Vanilla Townie was endgamed by poison.


    Looks like both cakes were poisoned after all, not quite sure why they'd eat a cake provided by murderers.

    The Mafia Faction of Tammy, Nachomamma8 (Posthumously) and Tom (Posthumously) have Won the game!

    ---------- Post automerged at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 PM ----------

    You may now post!
     
  19. Vira

    Vira Order Member

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    Congratulations Tammy, Nacho, and Tom! :D

    ---------- Post automerged at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:16 PM ----------

    Don't forget to links Obs and QTs, Reg.
     
  20. Regfan

    Regfan Muggle

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    D1 Auction Bids (Items Up: Doctor x 2, Neighbourizer x1, Hitman x2, Gravedigger x2)
    Fontisian bids $350 on Doctor
    Jarizok bids $100 on Neighbourizer
    Fonitisan raises her bid to $500 for Doctor
    Vira bids $1 on Neighbourizer
    Tom bids $86 on Neighbourizer
    Newcomb bids $50 on Neighbourizer
    Cobalt bids $200 on Neighbourizer (Winning bid)
    Waco Bids $1 on Gravedigger
    Koalas Bids $499 on Hitman (Winning bid)
    Koalas Bids $1 on Gravedigger
    Rubicon Bids $1 on Gravedigger
    Newcomb Bids $1 on Gravedigger
    Jarizok Bids $17 on Gravedigger
    Newcomb bids $51 on Gravedigger (Winning bid)
    Jan bids $499 on Hitman
    Typhon bids $499 on Hitman
    Vira bids $499 on Hitman
    Tom bids $501 on Doctor (Winning bid)

    D1 Analysis:
    Scum taking the route of going for the doctor over Hitman isn't one I expected nor is it one any townie really did either; not sure if it was 'the optimal' strategy but it was a decent one, Tom bidding $501 at day end to save Fontammys money was the correct move to make, he could have snagged a few other abilities at the same time but I don't think he realized how bidding worked to do so then. Didn't hurt in that nothing he could have won did anything for town at the end of the day. Newbcomb taking Gravedigger was probably a mistake given the odds of him dying but fairly minuscule in the scheme of things and Cobalt winning neighbourizer could have been fairly powerful had he targeted someone that wasn't obviously destined to die. Overall both town/scum played the D1 auction relatively well.

    N1: Owner Enhances:
    17-20 1x Bulletproof (Or option #1 of Jans)
    21-24 1x Cop (Or option #2 of Jans)
    25-28 1x Doctor (Or option #3 of Jans)
    29-32 2x Watcher (Or option #4 of Jans)

    With the D1 scum lynch it'd have probably have been optimal to put something up like Cop/Daykill/Auction Detectivex1/Auction Detectivex2 since scum can't $501 two items there without being able to be caught either via the Auction Detectives or by having anyone that bids over $300 the following day become clear, would have put scum in an awkward position if multiple of these came up then and even if it's a case of only getting 1-2 of them you're still forcing scums hand early on or receiving strong town power, that said the avenue Jan took was still perfectly fine.

    D2 Auction Bids (Items Up: Cop x1, Auction Detective x1, Auction Detective x2, Doctor x1)
    Rubicon bids $500 on Cop x 1
    Koalas bids $1 on Auction Detective x1
    Jarizok bids $500 on Cop x 1
    Fluff bids $200 on Cop x 1
    Fluff bids $300 on Doctor x 1 (Winning bid)
    Jan bids $199 on Doctor x 1
    Jan bids $100 on Auction Detective x 1
    Vira bids $52 on Auction Detective x 2
    Nacho bids $167 on Doc x1
    Nacho bids $166 on Auction Detective x2
    Nacho bids $167 on Auction Detective x1 (Winning bid)
    Tammy bids $501 on Cop x 1 (Winning bid)
    Miner bids Auction detective x2, $300 (Winning bid)
    Miner bids Doctor x1, $100
    Miner bids Auction detective x1, $100

    D2 Analysis:
    The act of snap bidding $500 on cop is a logical one to do as town especially with Auction Detectives up; you force scum to $501 the item to win it when they can be caught via the bids, that said only players unlikely to be lynched/shot should have been making that move. People undervalued Auction Detectives, they're worth bidding $500 on, mafia getting one so cheaply was a huge blunder by the town, Miner dying with the other was just a real bad bid of luck and a rather clutch mafia kill (If he lives he clears Rubicon). Doctor probably went somewhere around the right price. Overall scum played this day in a very short-term gain, long-term loss type manner and town did the opposite there, too many townies holding money on a great town roll day. Auction wise this day is what started to point the game back into the scums favour given town could have grabbed a stranglehold.

    N2: Owner Enhancers
    13-16 1x Bulletproof (Or option #1 of Jans)
    17-20 2x Tracker (Or option #2 of Jans)
    21-24 2x Watcher (Or option #3 of Jans)
    25-28 1x Jailkeeper (Or option #4 of Jans)

    Jan played this pretty well given you want Trackers/Watchers available to use in the backend of this game and putting them up so if they miss here you've got another chance afterwards is a reasonable way to go about it, that said with a $501 already shown again I'd have been tempted to put daykill up, if scum $501 it you can clear players and hurt scum.

    D3 Auction Bids (Hitman x1, Watcher x2, Tracker x2, Neighbourizer x2)
    Typhon bids $499 on Hitman x 1 (Winning bid)
    Nacho bids $500 on Watcher x 2 (Winning bid; can't be outbid by anyone)
    Koalas bids $1 on Hitman x 1
    Rubicon bids $500 on Tracker x 2 (Winning bid; can't be outbid by anyone)
    Fluff bids $99 on Neighbourizer x2
    Tammy bids $2 on Tracker x 2
    Tammy bids $248 on Neighbourizer x2 (Winning bid)
    Jan bids $200 on Tracker x 2

    D3 Analysis:
    Far too little bidding on this day again by town, lots of townies holding out which isn't the right idea entirely here; it's not a case of "You bid, you win", so you can't save your money for the last day and expect to always get something, "Bird in hand better than two in the bush". Typhons $499 Hitman bid was a selfless move and should have been made up for by whoever the likely lynch was having the funds to $500 it and give him his money back. Town should have been $500'ing tracker/watcher and maybe even neighbourzier, all of them are very good abilities late game and town ending up winning none of them (Since Rubicon took the tracker to the grave) was another misstep and could have made this game much more in the towns favour. Scum continued their idea of short-term gain ignoring how it'd result in the final days auction, town could have punished them by having people test-bid to clear themselves of having been the person to have bid on Cop and narrow down the scum team mechanically like that but I'll go into that later. Overall scum certainly won this days auction by a lot since Nacho can claim the watcher he won and Tammy can claim her neighbourizer so their "roles" here don't even look bad upon mass-claim down the road.

    N3: Owner Enhancers:
    9-12. Bulletproof x 1 (Or option #1 of Jans)
    13-16. Jailkeeper x 1 (Or option #2 of Jans)
    17-20. Roleblocker x 1 (Or option #3 of Jans)
    21-24. Tracker x 1 (Or option #4 of Jans)

    Jan made close to the best selection possible here, the only improvement I'd have made is putting daykill in for probably BP or Tracker given that town had enough information to discern that mafia didn't have the money to outbid them. That said his choice and the safer route was understandable and daykill came out anyway.

    D4 Auction Bids
    Fluff bids $200 on Bulletproof x1 (Winning bid, can't be outbid)
    Jan bids $499 on Daykill x1
    Jan raises bid to $500 on Daykill x1 (Winning bid, can't be outbid)
    Koalas bids $1 on Jailkeeper x1
    Vira bids $500 on Jailkeeper x 1 (Winning bid, can't be outbid)
    Nacho bids $85 on Jailkeeper x 1
    Nacho bids $48 on Tracker x 1
    Tammy bids $50 on Tracker x 1 (Winning bid, can't be outbid)
    Typhon bids $1 on Tracker x 1

    D4 Analysis:
    With town having more money on the backend here this was assumed to be where they finally come back and win some items and they did, 3/4 inside the day however lynching Vira with the JK Meant that Jan just dies with the daykill so town only end the day with a BP, had town lynched mafia here however they'd have put themselves in a very close to lock-win situation so it wasn't a bad performance in the auction day at all, just a case of towns lynch decision hurting them.

    Test-Bidding:
    An entire element of optimal town play that I'd expected people to use never made it into the game which is probably fair enough given people here seem less familiar with mechanic type games but still sad. Once scum had made their $501 bid on Cop D2 town should have started playing this setup different from D3 onward; you ask people that haven't claimed an item yet to bid $401 on certain items before the mid day interval, if they're unable to do so you've caught a scum player (Scum have the out in that the can either a) Hide the price or b) Have a partner bid for them to cover it) but you can remove scum teams of any pairing that has made $401 bids together and really start getting a feel for how much money scum have left from it. For instance Rubicon/Koalas scum team could have been ruled out with Rubicons $500 tracker claim given that Koalas claimed $499 on Hitman D1 and therefore neither of them could have made the Copx1 bid if they were partners. The game could have turned into a logical puzzle to solve with the information and situation scum put themselves in with the cop outbid but they played to the playerlist well in that they knew a cop check would likely have been on them and that town wouldn't discover this.

    Summary Mechanical Post:
    I think scum used and played around the mechanic much better than town did and it showed with their victory, town did have a series of unfortunate incidents like Miner dying while clearing Rubicon, Rubicon dying with the tracker and Vira dying with the jailkeeper as well as Cobalt neighbourizing the shot player but some of these were just bad play on the player or the towns part in general and too many people held their cash when they shouldn't have. I think most players know what they did wrong re; the mechanic and how they can improve on that if I ever run this again but I think the setup and mechanic ran smoothly enough that it seem to be fairly balanced and the randomness to what comes up aspect means there's no one strategy that could have been used, it was all very situational. Willing to hear any criticism or suggestions people have on it though.

    ---------- Post automerged at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:16 PM ----------

    Can I get a filler please!