Discussion in 'Little Italy' started by Regfan, Mar 23, 2017.
Filler~ Filler~ Filler~
First of a big congratulations to the scum team for winning and especially to Nacho & Tammy for replacing into their first game at this site as scum slots in a bad position, with the D1 lynch being on scum and them instantly down to a ~$4000 v $1600 situation it wasn't looking particularly pretty for them, the way they orchestrated that lylo of two incorrect worlds and pining Fluff against Koalas especially directly after Koalas had called out the exact scum team was impressive and they'd put themselves in a prime position. The scum theatre between the two of them was also very enjoyable to watch and just showed how much more they deserved the win than the town. Also the way they managed to actually use the mechanic and make sure the worlds they were pushing fit mathematically was rather hard to pull off and the way they went about revealing information/claims during D4 to take over as town leader was pivotal for them, including the last minute nugget of Nacho stating that Tammy also had Auction Detective to deter any chance of a blitz on her though Tammys EOD posting was very very scummy then.
That said town had a ridiculously good D1, just about everyone was on the right path and had good town circles with a scum lynch there, Jan & Jarizok maintained these good reads throughout the game and Newcomb died with his. I'm willing to give town a pass on that D2 entirely given that it's very hard and normally sub-optimal to lynch a player before they've caught up when replacing in which meant they had no realistic chance of lynching mafia that day, that said D3 and particularly D4 were unacceptable in activity levels, voting (Newcomb will go into this) and willingness to have an open mind, that Rubicon lynch was certainly painful with him being one of the most active players in the game and obviously dying with tracker too.
Jan definitely the stand out MVP for town, his mechanic based posts and decisions in the marketplace were fantastic and his reads and reasoning behind them were pretty much spot on, had he been able to get there D4 the game could have gone differently but can't blame him given the time deadline is and it takes nothing away from just how accurate and dangerous he was this game. Vira also had a good showing during D4 and correctly identified why Tammy as mafia re; the bidding with pretty good overall reads too, watching her get lynched with just the two scum votes was painful to observe.
The LYLO play involved far too little looking back at the interactions of players with Tom / progressions of reads and motivations in general, the fact that no one noticed that Tammy said she won Auction Detective x1 and intentionally didn't use it when seeing a $501 bid but rather save it was just a cherry on top of how incorrectly town played the situation. I'm hoping to see an improvement in effort/activity in the next game because it's needed and really hope to see a lot more direction and motivation hunting in players.
I'll type up some individual thoughts/advice for players later tonight because while I don't think any individual town player lost this game for the town and that it was a collective failure for the most part combined with some good scum play that abused that I think there's room to improve for a lot of people here.
If anyone has any questions for me about anything at all feel free to fire away. Otherwise thanks for playing!
Here were the night actions:
Mafia kill Newcomb
Cobalt neighbourizes Newcomb - https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/2niSPQjcfPfr
Miner Auction Detectives Rubicon (Result "Rubicon bid $500 on Cop x 1")
Mafia shoots Miner
His Fluffiness Doctors Typhon
Tammy neighbourizes Nachomamma8 - https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/PjaeWLLSpnLn
Nachomamma8 shoots Jarizok
Nachomamma8 watches Typhon (Result "You watch Typhon throughout the night, he's visited by His Fluffiness.")
Nacho kills Jan
Nacho watches Jan (Result "You watch Jan throughout the night, he's visited by Nachomamma8.")
Nacho auction detectives Koalas (Result "You Auction Detective Koalas and discover he bid $1 on Jailkeeper yesterday.")
Tammy neighborizes Typhon - https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/itAD8TgVchWt
Tammy tracks Typhon (Result "You track Typhon throughout the night, he visits no one.")
Tammy kills Typhon
Mod QT #1, Links to QTs in Post #3, Mod QT #2 & Obs QT
Also, death to koalas.
Dropped all the walls I have for now!
Congrats scum, deserved victory. Thanks for everyone for playing and helping keep this a fairly straightforward game to mod.
I really enjoyed playing this game. I loved the format and auction bids even though I never got to use mine. The activity at the end of D4 was frustrating since I got murdered by Tammy and Nacho in broad daylight, but it was more of a psyched “aw maaaaaan” sort of frustration. Jan was super good, and I liked Fluff's posts on D5 as he desperately tried to win the game.
Reg, thanks so much for hosting!
When I ask you questions answer them.
That was so stressful, I can breathe again!
Thank you for running it regfan, and I'm very glad I didn't let my team down.
I have more I want to say, but I am running out the door so I'll probably just post my rambly thoughts here and there as I have time tonight.
I really enjoyed playing with you guys though; I'm glad regfan asked me to replace in even if it was for a scum role!
On the Auction Detective point.. yeah probably should have caught that. Thought process was not holding bad mechanics against someone replacing in that day.
My only real complaint would be ending N5 early without asking such in my QT. Night is time to think without new content being added, it shouldn't be cut short without explicit permission.
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But yeah. Kicking myself for being talked out of that. Tammy only revealed after I suspected both of them which is.. less convoluted then it was in my head.
I had fun, sorry I fell off again. I need to learn to spread my energy across the game more.
I mean, come on now.
Let's talk about this vote count.
Fact: You knew there were two scum alive at this point.
Fact: You knew it was potentially LyLo.
Fact: You let someone get lynched with 2 votes.
That is just... I don't have the right word for it. It's bad and dumb, but a special kind of bad and dumb.
In fact, let's color in that vote count, just for fun.
That is just one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen in a mafia game.
Jan gets a pass because EoD is 4 AM his time, but it's a partial pass because he really should have had a vote down.
The rest of you, just... I don't get it. I really don't.
You know how Mal always bitches at people to vote? I usually give him shit for it because he's like a broken record, but seeing this game, maybe we kind of need him around.
Listen, the aim of this game is not "push sand around with your foot and talk about potential worlds." The aim of this game is forcing scum to do things that are too hard for them to do without being too obviously scum. You put a vote down on your strongest scumread, and you justify it. You can be wrong, you can vote for someone else later, you can vote for a pure gut reason, but you fucking have to vote.
Look at the wagons this game.
Day 1 was like 2-1-1-1-1-1 until I made my tom case, and then the wagon was "everyone who was online voted for tom, except for Miner." That's literally the only information you could get out of D1, wagon-wise. Aside from Jarizok and myself being marginally more town for our position on that wagon, but getting those two clears via VCA is like looking at a watch and seeing it's 5 PM and being like, "well, the position of the sun tells me it's late afternoon."
Day 2 was Rubicon endlessly getting soft-pushed and a Cobalt EoD blitz.
Day 3 didn't have votes or wagons, more like Rubicon's Death By Inches.
Day 4 had, well, see above.
You need to realize, as town, that more than 50% of your job is being obviously town to other town, and that more than 50% of scumhunting isn't making amazing catches that nail scum to the wall, it's you and the other town doing so much Town Stuff that scum just cannot fake it without being obvious. So you have to vote, and you have to justify your vote, and you have to move your vote when you think someone else is more likely to be scum, and you have to talk about your reasons for that. It's not for you, it's for the rest of your team, because they need to be able to read you. And if enough town do that, scum lose, because if they are forced to vote, forced to make cases, forced to fake organic solving, they will crumble.
This is like, super basic stuff, and everyone's different, but like. Mafia will never not be about this, fundamentally.
I feel like DLP over these last 5 or 6 months of game has kind of drifted away from that.
Also holy fuck that night kill on me made me actually so sad.
GGWP thanks to Reg for hosting!
You get why this is important, right? Like. The bolded will never be not true.
If you only try to obviously solve the game when the game is literally on the line, you will get lynched every time.
Like, I thought you were 100% spewed clear from tom's flip, and I don't blame Koalas at all for lynching you over Tammy.
I am very sorry for how long it took me to catch up. Most days during the week I have very limited time, especially at certain points during the semester. I dislike playing scum quite a lot, but my activity level is usually due to real life issues though I probably post more on average as town than scum.
Anyway I'm sorry about that; I know how frustrating it is to wait on slots you need a read on. It doesn't help that I'm the worlds slowest reader and gathering my thoughts takes me time.
Regfan I'd be very interested in some detailed critique though. As I've talked to with.. multiple people over the past year and a half I felt like my game had stalled for a lot of reasons and it's really impacted my enthusiasm. This game.. was active regression. I honestly feel like I played better in my first game.
I really enjoyed playing with you guys a lot. I've been frustrated in mafia laty for a variety of reasons, but I really liked the way most of the town worked through the game. People drop off here and there, so I don't get too concerned with that, but most of you really put in effort to figure out the game and I wish I was part of the town with you.
I didn't agree with some of the reasoning here and there but a lot of the time the correct conclusion was reached. Though if I were town I imagine I'd be picking at some of that reasoning more.
I hope to play with you guys again sometimes. Do you guys always have fast deadlines?
Right, GGWP mafia. And thanks Reg for hosting. Great flavor and the postgame commentary was much appreciated.
We'd love to have you again, Nahco/Tammy.
Would definitely like a rematch haha.
Nacho, glad to see from the QT the 1v1 was as fun for you as it was for me. Definitely the one thing I feel good about this game.
GG all, sorry I had to drop out, sick, thought I was getting better, and then it came back and hit me over the head with a shovel.
Regfan talked a bit about this but town would have benefitted from coordination and keeping people accountable for how much money they had remaining. In this type of game it's not important to keep the roles hidden, it's more important to hold people accountable so scum can't do what we did so easily.
I've played in two of the three games this one is based on, and though some of the mechanics are different in the first game we had a pretty decent town core and we pushed for transparency that coupled with the strong town core gave the town a strong win. Second time a poor plan was put in place that might not have been so poor if they'd made scum be accountable, and bad reads coupled with holding nobody anyone accountable let scum dominate the game.
Me claiming the auction detective was pretty much a day four decision we'd not been able to do if forced otherwise. (And my eod weirdness was me panicking about whether or not to claim it while simultaneously having internet issues, which was frustrating.)
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