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It's An Owners Market - Game Over!

Discussion in 'Little Italy' started by Regfan, Mar 23, 2017.

  1. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Chief Warlock

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,521
    Well played to Tammy and Nacho.

    Town got complacent after that D1 scum lynch, but you guys already knew that. Setup looked pretty fun, and somewhat wish I'd played (but busybusybusy).
     
  2. Regfan

    Regfan Muggle

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    High Score:
    0
    I'll probably dump these in here bits at a time, most will probably come when I get home from work though.

    Tom- Thought you just had a weaker start to the game than most other players did and than you normally do which put you into the pool of players that were a potential lynch at day end. Know you'll probably disagree but I think Newcomb and to a lesser degree Jarizok had some decent points against you although a few of them I'd argue are fairly NAI; you were pretty much doomed once Newcomb dropped the case at EOD1 with no wagons to try and counter push it with. Not much advice I can really give you here given I'm not the best scum player but I think the tonal/motivation point that Newcomb brought up is the best one for you to try and address and keep in mind moving forward. Did enjoy watching you try and use some form of algorithm to determine what the value of items should be and most certainly would have been interesting if you were town.

    Newcomb- Typical NewBcomb, fluffing the game up by lynching scum D1 and getting himself shot. But really don't have much advice to give you since you played as well as you could have for the time you were in the game, the only thing might be if you'd left behind some more reasoning behind your town reads it'd probably have put town in a slightly better position. Really do enjoy watching you attempt to solve the game with the "Not W/W" type posts, feels like you're compiling information to solve the game like a puzzle in the late game if you ever make it there and the motivation hunting behind posts was a fresh breath of air inside the game. #twolossesinarow.

    ---------- Post automerged 04-18-2017 at 12:00 AM ---------- Previous post was 04-17-2017 at 11:29 PM ----------

    Miner- Found you misreading Tom again absolutely hilarious but that's certainly something you're going to need to work on since that makes you 0/5? reading him now. I think you played well being fairly transparent with your thoughts and making sure you were town read and out of the lynch pool but I think you could have done slightly more to actively lynch scum; throw down votes, push people, some more pro activeness from you to increase your influence and impact in the game is needed. The Auction Detective purchase and usage on Rubicon was good play that was harshly punished by a night kill I don't think many expected. Thought you had a solid game overall though.

    Rubicon- I mostly touched on these things in the dead QT but I thought your activity and effort towards game solving in the game was fantastic and that the fact that people constantly refused to get away from you was unfortunate and undeserved to a degree. That said I think you need to work on being a little more transparent with your reads and thoughts since it often feels like you're slightly robotic and that you leave out a lot of how you got to your reads which the thread needs to see. I think you're well aware of the problems with your $500 cop and $500 tracker bids so I won't go into that but think you could have also taken a little more initiative in putting forward plans/ideas on how town could have used the setup since I think you're certainly capable of playing this setup well.

    ---------- Post automerged at 12:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 AM ----------

    Jarizok- I thought you had a very good showing here, most of your reads were pretty spot on, your PoE for a large portion of the game included both Nacho/Tammy and you'd correctly identified Tom as scum D1 and actually had the balls to state you're putting forward a case; I think that also made it much easier for players to correctly read you as town and the Tom flip made you look significantly better. The way you went about asking Miner his read on Tom, hearing town and voting Tom was also a great thing to read. I can't fault you for not hard pushing Nacho/Tammy D2 given it's pretty reasonable play in how to handle replacements but I think D3 you needed to try and make your voice heard a lot more rather than shrug compromising on Rubicon, you talked about having your confidence still inside your QT but I think it needed to translate into that day phase and you needed to maintain your activity level during it rather than fall off. That said you were probably Top 3 townie in this game.

    ---------- Post automerged at 12:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 AM ----------

    Vira-I enjoyed reading your QT probably the most (Sorry Typhon) inside the game and found your thoughts on the setup and the game as well as your determination to win Neighbourizer early D1 very pure and sweet to read; I also loved your D3 entrance post but I think you could have certainly improved your game by posting a lot of your thoughts that were in the QT inside the game thread instead (Even the paranoia/tinfoily ones) since I think it'd have made you easier to read in the game. I think the way you got lynched was one of the hardest things I've seen in a mafia game and felt really bad for you given you'd just started posting really good logic in the thread and had correctly identified Tammy. I think if you can control your tunnels and make a bit more of an effort in posting reads/thoughts in the thread you've got lots of potential.

    ---------- Post automerged at 12:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 AM ----------

    Jan- It's no secret I think you played the best town game in the room, I'd even argue you may have played the best full stop given Tammy/Nacho both played well but it was largely a group effort with them two bailing each other when the other was in trouble. I think you making sure that you were elected over Waco put town in a phenomenal position D1 and that your usage of the Marketplace Owner was great with a few tweaks you could have done instead. Your reads were near perfect and your reasoning behind being skeptical of Rubicon RE; Auction Detectives D3 was solid, just unfortunate 1 went to scum and 1 died that night. I think the only advice I'd give you is that you need to use your vote a lot more, far too often in the game you weren't voting anyone and it hurts town when that occurs, the other is that you need to be more confident in yourself and reads; not saying you need to completely tunnel, just be willing to vote your scum reads. I also think you could have used the mechanics better in the day phase since you had a good grasp on that but don't really fault you for it given it's not common around here. Deserved MVP.

    ---------- Post automerged at 12:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 AM ----------

    Nachomamma8 - Sup noob, I'm not going to help you learn how to play. You played the situation rather well, coming into a rough slot and being able to help it survive an extra few days is very commendable, I also think several of the moves you made re; the auction probably weren't the moves I'd have made but all played out well for you and in hindsight are something I wish I'd have done. The only pieces of advice I can offer you is that I felt like this game was winnable in the F5 if you'd leaned on Fluff and got him to vote Koalas there; it'd have minorly reduced the odds of it being a F3 win but I feel like the trade would have been worthwhile. The second is that I think some of the posts in the scum theater on D5 came from a weird motivation-type angle where someone looking at the game objectively would struggle to see what you were trying to do as town. But congrats on the win and thanks for replacing in again.
     
  3. Newcomb

    Newcomb Headmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    Can I just say that between the flavor, game thoughts, mechanics thoughts, and individual player slots, that whoever mods a game next is going to have a highly unreasonable / awesome standard to live up to.
     
  4. Regfan

    Regfan Muggle

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    High Score:
    0
    Typhon- You're very much one of my favourite players on the site and I think you're someone that's way too hard on themselves; taking a singular game break is understandable especially given the RL things you have going on but just learn from your mistakes, improve and get back into it! We've spoken outside of the game but thought I'd just restate the key points I think you can improve on; I think you're better moving back towards your natural playstyle of posting reads with explanations and reads walls, it gives you the structure that you need in the game. I also think you need to spent much less time on things like VCA and information dumps at daystart and instead just scumhunt organically throughout the day phase; ask people questions, move your vote around, explain your reads, just get back to the roots because you're a good player when you're not frazzled and one of the more reasonable/enjoyable players to play with. Also you got to lynch Nacho scum and of that I'm very jealous.

    And that's probably all I can get around to at work, the rest will have to wait until when I get home.
     
  5. Jarizok

    Jarizok DA Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    157
    Location:
    Malta
    I believe an Eido WH was next up on the calendar. Fingers crossed he can deal with the pressure!
     
  6. Regfan

    Regfan Muggle

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    High Score:
    0
    His Fluffiness- Newcomb mentioned it earlier but you really needed to put forth the effort you put in D6 throughout the entire game, just starting to chime up then doesn't help anyone and makes a lot of people always keep you in their PoE throughout the game making the game harder to solve and makes it awfully hard to not lynch you when the situation doesn't look easy. I think you really need to start actually contributing earlier on and posting reads/explanations/thoughts because your QT and several posts of yours throughout the game showed you did have them and your reads were actually fairly good in the game, you had Tom+Fonti nailed D1 for instance and were correctly confident in Jan/Typhon being town. Honestly just a bit more commitment to the game from you and you'd be a good player.

    ---------- Post automerged at 02:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 AM ----------

    Tammy - I thought your replace in and catch up posts were all fairly good, they had a few people town reading you and thinking you were 'pure' from them and don't think you need to be apologising for your catch up speed, it was fine. I think you could have taken a little more control of the night actions though, for instance insisting on using the Auction Detective when you got it means it turns into a semi-rolecop and makes your fake claiming much easier in the future. Your EOD4 play wasn't pretty and I'm sure you know that but it was somewhat necessary given town win if they lynch mafia there; your D5 & D6 play was much better and you'd secured the win due to it, do think you need to take night killing players and mslynching players as mafia less emotionally though, it's part of the game and I feel like it influenced the Typhon kill when I think you win more comfortably with him alive. Really though you're a good scum player so next time I see you say "I suck as scum" I'm lynching you!

    ---------- Post automerged at 03:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 AM ----------

    Koalas - I really don't blame you too much for that hammer choice, scum created fake teams rather well and made it so mechanically/math wise Fluff looked bad in that LYLO, the only thing you missed all re; roles was the delay of use with Auction Detective which everyone else alive missed too. I do think you were better off using a little more of that day phase though, you had ~24 hours left and questioning players about progression of their reads throughout the game was the way it should have been used, Tammy had a few that she's have difficulty with; especially in regards to Nacho & Vira. As for your play in general I think you need to show a /lot/ more thought process inside the thread; it helps people get a better read on you, creates an avenue of conversation in the game and helps you yourself better understand your reads and attribute the correct amount of confidence to them. It most importantly will give you more impact on the game which it felt like you were severely lacking and was shown in the lack of direction there was in the thread after Newcomb died and the lack of votes D4. You don't even need to have super accurate reads or be very confident in a thought to be sharing it, any real thought shared helps others, yourself and the game overall. It's not really even a case of you're not putting in the effort, you are and you coming down to the Nacho/Tammy scum team shows as much but it's about you're doing too much outside the thread v inside it and it's something you can easily amend as long as you're keeping it mind in future games; interactions and thoughts shared with players both things that help.

    And I think that's everyone unless I'm missing someone?
     
  7. Vaimes

    Vaimes First Year

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2014
    Messages:
    37
    I barely read anything. My only two (super early, like page 2 or 3) reads were that font and Typhon were town.

    Hope you all had fun.
     
  8. Jarizok

    Jarizok DA Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Malta
    Font was not town
     
  9. Vaimes

    Vaimes First Year

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2014
    Messages:
    37
    Yes I did see the endgame post.
     
  10. Jarizok

    Jarizok DA Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Malta
    I wasn't entirely serious with the spoiler, I must admit.
     
  11. Jan

    Jan Squib

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Messages:
    18
    Thanks for the good words.

    Still feel like if I hadn't been asleep around EoD the Vira lynch would have never happened and I was basically set between lynching Nacho and Tammy that day.

    A lot of ifs but I think my postion in town was strong enough to make that happen.

    But well .. can't feel bad about things like this forever.

    All the respect to Tammy and Nacho for fighting through it.

    I think scum got lucky ebcause town basically gave them 2 days of misslynches to catch-up, which is too much. Learn from your mistakes and all that. Without the subs town would have almsot always won the game, I think.
    But that should not reduce their work. They did great!

    I am unsure how Tammy did not die the day after the Vira lynch because she should have been confirmed scum in almost everybodys eyes, but the key is to play the players in the game and push your own logic as scum.

    If they hadn't done that and just waited for things to happen, they would have always lost. Good play at the right time.

    Good Game. Witchhunt next .. soon.

    ---------- Post automerged at 21:06 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ----------

    Oh and because I am a jerk and missed out on saying the msot important parts.

    Thanks Regfan for hosting!

    Fun game overall and you are a good mod. Thanks for the kind words and thoughts of improvement.

    And as always ..

    Blame Newcomb.
     
  12. Miner

    Miner Groundskeeper

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    May 27, 2015
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    Gender:
    Male
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    East Coast
    Witchhunt... now?
     
  13. Vaimes

    Vaimes First Year

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2014
    Messages:
    37
    go go go

    I'll make time for it. Probably.