Yes, we know he's a curse breaker, and then we can assume he has taken classes, but we don't know it. Maybe in the meeting, you go to in fifth year, you are told what NEWT subjects you have to take, to get that kind of a job.

 

You missed my point, Kate. What I'm saying is that the Egyptian curses and such are not things that he can just go to the Hogwarts library and look up. They are ancient, much older then Hogwarts, and that leads me to believe that they are things he has to learn about himself.

 

I agree with you, but again its not clear, maybe that is something you learn in NEWT Ancient Runes.

EDIT: Even if they are older than Hogwarts. Hogwarts has probably collected ancient texts that are older than Hogwarts.

 

*sigh* This thread will never actually come to a definite decision, will it? A lot like that Muggle vs. Wizard thread that was just closed. This should be locked as well. Rowling didn't give us enough definite answers to come to a clear decision. Anyways, this thread has gone so off-topic I had to go back to the first post to read what it was about.

 

Just make a poll, and we will know the general opinion of DLP.

 

Okay there is a poll. It only covers Hogwarts years since that is the only time we can cover for that.
( This was the first topic.)


Crap is there anyway to edit the poll? meant to put in Everything is taught at Hogwarts or not too.

 

Lily is the most undeveloped character in the HP verse and completely undeserving of it too. It was her and Harry's forehead that did the job back in 1981, and while Harry's forehead has ample space in cannon, Lily is almost non-existent.

 

Alright.

On the Marauders-and-contemporaries issue

Simple canon facts:

-- James and Lily were among the best students in their year (Hagrid, PS).

-- James and Sirius were the most brilliant students Hogwarts had seen in a long time (Prof. McGonagall and Flitwick, PoA).

-- Peter was way below them in terms of skill, but always hung around them (same sources).

-- Remus? We have no clear information. He's a werewolf, was probably a good student in the same way Hermione is, is a good teacher, and we can assume he's a decent duellist.

-- Snape is a superb Occlumens (Lupin, OotP), extremely gifted in spells (Sirius, GoF; HBP) and Potions (Slughorn, HBP).

-- Lily was a very smart witch, particularly gifted in Potions (Slughorn, HBP).


So, what do we deduct from all this? The arguments in favour of Snape > James or Sirius are mainly "Snape invented spells, James and Sirius haven't." Well, first off: James and Sirius have created a brand new magical object, the Marauders' Map; Peter and Remus probably helped for its creation, for it's easier to remember all the secret passageways when there are four persons looking instead of two. Peter, as a rat, probably had way more freedom around the castle itself than any of the others.

Second, Snape has invented spells; great. He's extremely gifted. He has, among others, invented the Levicorpus spell, a specifically non-verbal one. How did James steal that spell from him? It's possible that Snape let his book fall into the wrong hands, but I doubt that. Snape was friendless, always ready to counter an attack, therefore probably highly paranoid; his book was without doubt his most precious possession. Another possibility is that James and Sirius spotted the wand movement and the effects of the spell, and instead of stealing it, they copied it. Meaning they could be gifted enough to make up spells as well.

By the way, the term "Potions Master" is indeed used in PS, but we do not know what reality it describes; is it an honorary title, or just a title given to any Potions teacher? It could be both.

So, I would be more prone to think that James and Sirius were at least as strong as Snape. Given Snape's constant jealousy of James (according to Remus), I'd add that it is highly probable that James > Snape.

On the matter of Animagi: James' strong spot was Transfiguration. Sirius probably didn't need much of his help. Peter "needed all the help he could get, but managed it in the end" (Lupin, approx. quotation, PoA). I'm enclined to think that Peter was stronger than even his friends suspected; although I don't think that he hid his abilities out of spite or because he was evil, but most probably out of habit -- James and Sirius could do all the job effortlessly. As for Remus, again, he was a good student and a prefect; but then, Ron is a prefect as well. Nuff said.

Lily: we don't know much about her. She is the major Marauder-era character we know the least about. We don't know enough to say whether she was stronger than James, or than Snape. She was a really brilliant witch with a gift in Potions, and possible abilities in Charms.

Oh, and last: the one who said that Remus claimed Harry to be as good as James in PoA was referring to the movie, not the book.


On the Do-Wizards-Learn-Everything-In-Hogwarts? matter

We know that there are no Universities after Hogwarts (interview of JKR). We know that a good number of jobs probably require a training, but to what extent that training includes new spells or only deepens the knowledge acquired in Hogwarts, we have no idea. That's up to the fanfiction author to imagine. We do not know how big the Hogwarts library is. We do not know what quantity of knowledge Riddle gathered outside of Hogwarts, and what spells he made up himself.

What I do know, however, is that everyone has been giving the same examples for the past two pages to prove Taure's theory wrong. His theory is far-fetched; but as a fanfiction author he defended it quite well. You disagree? Fine. I don't agree with him either. But don't repeat the same damn thing over and over again.




Short answer:

¤ James > Snape. (Especially considering how powerful James would have become had he reached Snape's age.)

¤ Whether all knowledge is held within Hogwarts' walls or not is up to the fanfiction author to decide. I doubt JKR herself has a clear answer to that.

 

"And then, of course, there was the sheer size of the library; tens of thousands of books; thousands of shelves; hundreds of narrow rows." - PS

"Very few people know that Lord Voldemort was once called Tom Riddle. I taught him myself, fifty years ago, at Hogwarts. He disappeared after leaving the school ... traveled far and wide ... sank so deeply into the Dark Arts, consorted with the very worst of our kind, underwent so many dangerous, magical transformations, that when he resurfaced as Lord Voldemort, he was barely recognizable. Hardly anyone connected Lord Voldemort with the clever, handsome boy who was once Head Boy here." - Albus Dumbledore, CoS

"Secondly, the castle is a stronghold of ancient magic. Undoubtedly Voldemort had penetrated many more of its secrets than most of the students who pass through the place, but he may have felt that there were still mysteries to unravel, stores of magic to tap." - Albus Dumbledore, HBP

We can see what kind of spells Voldemort created and this is far more advanced Dark magic that Snape's Sectumsempra.

Most Powerful Wizards learned from:

Superb teachers at Hogwarts, Resources of Hogwarts at his disposal from teachers work, self-study - Albus Dumbledore.

Superb teachers at Hogwarts (Dumbledore, Slughorn), travelling the world in a search of forbidden knowledge, undoubtfully some inventions - Lord Voldemort.

Of course, Hogwarts can't have ALL knowledge of magic, but the quantity of it still awe-inspiring. Even after Voldemort travelled the world and consorted with the worst Dark Wizards for decades, Hogwarts still had some magic that the he hadn't found.

So in conclusion I think that to learn everything from Hogwarts in 7 years is pretty laughable delusion.

 

Thank you Tinn.

 

I thought it went without saying, but apparently I was wrong. When I said that we didn't know how big the library was, I was referring to its contents compared to the width of magical knowledge in its entirety. That, we don't know.

As for the two Dumbledore quotes, they sum up what I said: we don't know for certain what part of Riddle's knowledge he gathered in Hogwarts and what part he taught himself.

I don't think anyone said that Snape and Voldemort were comparable. Indeed they are not.

And as I said -- I disagree with Taure's theory for the same reasons you mentioned, and that everyone else mentioned for over two pages. I do believe that on this subject, everything that needed to be said has.


EDIT: You're welcome Dranco.

 

You cant compare Snape and Voldemort. So far in canon the only people have been even near Voldemort are Dumbledore(obvious) and Lily and James(based on the fact they defied him 3 times even if it might have been like Harry's times complete luck.).

 

You can also add the Longbottoms to that list, based on the prophecy as well.

 

I think she said that they aren't comparable quite nicely, Dranco, but thank you for reiterating.

Could an admin or mod close his damn thread like the Wizard vs. Muggle because, as Tinn said, it's said he same thing for over two pages.