WIP Kill Your Heroes by Evil Is A Relative Term - T - Naruto

Discussion in 'Naruto' started by sonny_yalin, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. Nemrut

    Nemrut The Black Mage Prestige

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    I'm not so sure I like Nightmare Granny's severe dislike of the Sharingan. On one hand, it's plausible that some people in Konoha have (more or less) petty grudges against Uchiha, on the other hand, it does feel like bashing because she rehashes the same arguments that those indy Naruto fics use, with how Sasuke is cheating and how unfair it is that he, a ninja, takes advantage of something like that instead of training honestly with his bijuu like Naruto does etc.

    Dunno, a bit awkward. Takes me out of the story to think about that.
     
  2. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    An Uchiha is like a Basilisk; they are easily defeated by the combination of a mirror and a cock in hand. [stare]What does that even mean?[/stare]
     
  3. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Yeah, Nemrut, I both see and don't see it at the same time, in terms of story.

    Non-Konoha Ninja
    Plenty of reason for them to hate the Uchiha for stealing their techniques, regardless of any concept of it being right or wrong or cheating for them to do so. They're the enemy, of course they'll try to steal your techniques and kill you with them.

    Konoha Ninja
    Theoretically this is where things get blurry, because if you're a Konoha ninja, then the Uchiha are your allies, regardless of whether or not you like them. The sharingan is a natural tool they're born with, and it's silly/ridiculous to expect them not to use it out of politeness.

    However... I can still 100% understand not wanting to let them have your techniques. For various reasons, but mostly because ninja are naturally cagey with that sort of thing. So you'd try to keep your techniques from them where possible. That naturally leads to a state of resentment if you find out that an Uchiha snuck into your private training grounds to spy on you and steal something you just spent years developing, especially since they could take it into the field, familiarize enemies with it, and then fuck you over if you run into those same enemies later.

    So I'm not completely opposed to the fact that Konoha ninja resent the Uchiha. Could probably come up with more scenarios than that.

    What gets me is when Konoha ninja expect Uchiha just to not... use it where their allies are concerned. You can think they're rude (and maybe polite ones wouldn't copy things from friends). You can be pissed at them for it. You can try to prevent them doing it.

    But expecting them not to use a powerful bloodline technique because you don't like it? That's bullshit.

    But for me, Grandmother Nightmare didn't quite cross that line. I don't think she expected the Uchiha not to use it so much I feel she resented them for it. And I'm okay with that.

    In her case it seems to be covered fairly well anyway, since she specifically mentions (I think) that the copied version would never be quite as effective without the years of training to perfect it. Even if the sharingan lets them cast the jutsu perfectly, it doesn't magically make them good at the mental component. So not only are they copying something she perfected, they're copying it and then fucking it up.
     
  4. Nemrut

    Nemrut The Black Mage Prestige

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    I think there are easy common sense boundaries for the Sharingan. Obviously, don't sneak or spy into training facilities and outright steal them without asking. That's just rude and dishonest. Consent first. And I kinda doubt most Uchiha did

    When they happen to copy it in active combat situations, well, that's fair game. Can't expect them to look away from their comrades during that or to pretend as if they don't know that technique.

    I honestly don't believe that there would be much conflict over jutsu theft. They are the police force, kinda doubt the police would steal jutsu like this by spying on private training sessions. That's just bad form and makes people not trust you.

    I can see a few individuals being generally bitter, maybe about how easy the Sharingan makes fighting in general (even if it is not the automatic win button it became later in the series), but I would guess that's more on those who were already insecure. Not an experienced shinobi like the Granny.

    Some stories like to pretend as if the Sharingan is a crutch. That just sounds like bitterness to me.

    As to the mastery, yeah. Think it was pretty much said that while Sharingan can copy and understand techniques, it doesn't mean the user can pull them off competently. Kakashi was very much a rarity on that front. Technical skill, intelligence, body conditioning, chakra moulding capabilities, elemental affinity, experience with that sort of techniques in general, all of that plays a role in various jutsu and techniques and 99% of Sharingan users would have to practice it first before they can truly use a technique.

    Kakashi made it his speciality that he could use so many techniques, even if he only uses like 10 in canon.
     
  5. Agayek

    Agayek The Chosen One

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    And even with that, Kakashi still demonstrated the most versatile and broadly-scoped skillset in canon.
     
  6. D.H.

    D.H. Seventh Year DLP Supporter

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    Also, in canon, the Sharingan's copy ability gets used only twice; when Kakashi copies Zabuza's water dragon and when Sasuke copies Lee's taijutsu. It's not like it was even a big deal in canon, it got completely dropped in part 2. I honestly don't see why fanon makes such a big deal out of it.
     
  7. TMNTurtwig

    TMNTurtwig Professor

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    Pretty sure granny nightterror hates the Uchiha because of Madara, the Kyuubi, and the rebellion. The cheat eyes just happen to be the thing she's allowed to talk about.
     
  8. Drake

    Drake Seventh Year

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    Updated.
    I actually sort of enjoy this aspect of the story. It certainly glosses over a lot of potential moments of levity to focus primarily on the conflict and tragedy, but the story really sells me on Sakura's advancement. It doesn't feel cheap or random. She has clawed her way to talent through intellect, ingenuity, and experience. She has had guides along the way, but all of her success is primarily through her will and work alone. I like that Granny Nightmare and Kakashi didn't just dump some jutsu on her. I really like that she isn't just a Tsunade clone like in canon.

    I kind of got off on a tangent there. I guess more what I'm saying is that although Sakura's life is extremely difficult I feel that is fairly accurate to what the life of a ninja with no bullshit bloodline/jinchuriki status would have to deal with. And more importantly I enjoy that she never lets her life defeat her. She struggles, but always overcomes. Unlike Naruto in canon, she truly is someone who has accomplished everything through hard work.

    More specific to this update though, I felt this was a good wrap up of the time skip and in general I've enjoyed the more vingette approach to not doing a time skip, but not getting bogged down too much (I'm looking at you DoS). We're likely getting Naruto back soon if not next chapter and I'm really looking forward to his interaction with who Sakura has become (not to mention future Sasuke interactions).
     
  9. Mindsculptor

    Mindsculptor Muggle

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    Most of the complaints about Granny Nightmare's loathing of the Uchiha ring hollow to me. Who here has honestly never hated somebody they worked with? Even if, in hindsight, the reasoning was shallow?

    Also, something else people are missing. Regular ninja are special ops troopers. Compartmented information comes with the territory. ANBU are the Narutoverse version of JSOC. Compartmented information really comes with the territory. So who's to say she has the whole story? Granny Nightmare is clearly old enough for the pre-village vets to be a sizable influence and the first casualty the enemy takes in a war is their perceived humanity. Frankly, I find it beyond plausible that her prejudices were learned and she probably picked up some new ones after the Kyuubi and Uchiha Massacre fiascos.
     
  10. mdatot

    mdatot Squib

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    I think I liked The First Flower of Spring by the same author better. Kill Your Heroes is probably a better fic, really, with a far more developed Sakura, and a plot that actually seems to be going somewhere. Thing is, I don't exactly read fanfiction because it is great literature and I'm really not one to care much about canon personalities, so when it came to Sakura kicking ass her AU portrayal in The First Flower was more entertaining. Maybe it's just the instant gratification speaking. I'm a simple man, at least when it comes to fanfiction.

    Other than that, I think one of the author's greatest strengths is actually research and world building, and that doesn't show that much in Kill Your Heroes. Where the West Wind Blows was genuinely interesting both when it came to Shinto and to dog demon court protocol.

    Still, it's an entertaining fic and I'm following it. I can't even figure out anything really negative to say about it. 4/5.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2016
  11. Nemrut

    Nemrut The Black Mage Prestige

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    Anyone still reading this? The strength of the story is very much its portrayal and inner voice of Sakura and even with this current plot that is also often used by far worse fics, I am still invested because it still retains its inherent quality.

    Liking the newer chapters.
     
  12. Grubdubdub

    Grubdubdub Supreme Mugwump

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    The whole Itachi plot-line doesn't interest me that much, I'm afraid. The portrayal of Sakura here is very likeable, and I want to read more about her, but there is too much tell and too little show in later chapters imo. The character growth and development has been stunted, also.

    All in all an enjoyable read. Right now I'd rate it 3.5/5, waiting on the next arc for a more final rating.
     
  13. Grubdubdub

    Grubdubdub Supreme Mugwump

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    New chapter is out and this is getting better and better. Plot-wise everything is going a bit too smoothly but the characters interaction got much better. Really excited for the next update. :)
     
  14. Garden

    Garden Minister of Magic

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    I don't like that the Uchiha Massacre is basically justified in this fic.

    In canon, the only reason it happens is because Danzo is a criminally incompetent mass murderer so blinded by the desire for Sharingan that he stops Itachi and Shsui from fixing the Uchiha hatred with Shisui's eyes and decides to take matters into his own hands by killing the most powerful group of shinobi the Leaf has (the Uchiha clan), kill Shisui (near or at S-class level with an amazing jutsu), and send another (Itachi) out on a long-term mission instead of strengthening Konoha at home.

    It is the single most unexplainable thing in canon, and whenever a fic tries to justify it through grimdark like this story...

    But of course, in this fic, grimdark wins. we have Sakura criticizing (in her head) Sasuke for turning traitor, even though her own village head has tacitly condoned the Massacre and admiring Itachi, when she should be amazed at Itachi's goddamned stupid plan that involved killing a whole clan when other solutions presented themselves.

    The fights in this fic are pretty good, and the writing is good too.

    Sakura is a bit OP though. She's as good of a medic nin as she is in canon with Tsunade's training, but also great at genjustu and poison, and fast.
     
  15. foreveryone

    foreveryone Second Year

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    That's often how it goes with Evil Is A Relative Turn. The protag is a hyper competent Sakura who is at home in the 'Grey' morality of the constructed world. The pseudoharems (Five Kingdoms for the Dead) that pop up tend to be somewhat off-putting too. Not to say that Kill Your Heroes is bad fic, the technical writing is solid and the things I've mentioned above are at least a bit more toned down in comparison to Five Kingdoms for the Dead, making it many times more readable.