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Manchester Arena attack

Discussion in 'Politics' started by bolko7, May 23, 2017.

  1. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    Latest on the BBC is reports of gunfire from the area.

    I think it'll take a while for the news to figure out what's going on.
     
  2. vlad

    vlad Seventh Year Prestige

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    I just hope that there's no backlash. Against either this attack, or the one that happens next month.
     
  3. fire

    fire High Inquisitor

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    Stabbings at the Borough Market too. I was planning to bring a friend there next weekend, but now...
     
  4. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Now is actually probably the safest it will be in the foreseeable future.

    Is there solid information on locations and numbers? So often it's all rumor in the immediate aftermath.
     
  5. Innomine

    Innomine Auror Prestige DLP Supporter

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    I'm wondering how much of an effect these attacks will have on the election. May is seen as much stronger on terrorism right?
     
  6. Nazgus

    Nazgus Death Eater

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    I don't know that it changed anything though. Reporting I heard seemed to be that it's horrible, but at the end of the day it's more of the same we've seen so far. I don't think a lot of people will reevaluate their choice based on this. If you wanted someone that's seen as tougher on terrorism you probably wanted them before this latest attack.
     
  7. GiantMonkeyMan

    GiantMonkeyMan High Inquisitor

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    Polls indicated that there was virtually minimal change or none at all in people's voting choices after Manchester. However, with a second attack in as many weeks that might be an additional factor. Honestly, it's just all a bit tiring.
     
  8. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  9. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman Prestige DLP Supporter

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    For some reason she is, but I don't understand why. She's the one who has consistently cut police funding and numbers, and she's the one who has presided over the Government which failed to stop the recent attacks.

    But no, because Corbyn advocates trying to find a peaceful solution rather than just dropping bombs in foreign countries he's a terrorist sympathiser...
     
  10. Invictus

    Invictus Heir

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    Yeah, shocking as how someone that was sympathetic to the IRA, wanting to not do anything about Syria and ISIS, is hugely sympathetic to Palestines' worse organization, including calling Hamas a friend and writing to a site called 'the Eletronic Intifada'. He also called Hezbollah a friend and defended them as legit organizations. He has quite the good ties with Iran and oppose any harsher treatment of them.

    He called Russia's actions on Ukraine as been provoked by NATO, said that the UK shouldn't have answered militarily to the Falklands invasion by the bloody dictatorship of Argentina (something that directly caused their quick fall and stopped thousands of deaths). Wants the UK to give up their Nuclear deterrent (see how that worked out for Ukraine btw).

    Gee, I wonder why he is called a terrorist sympathizer and ineffective on security. But I'm sure all of this is doing is just him being a nice guy or fake Tory propaganda, after all, Corbyn is completely connected to reality and all of these organizations are legit and trustable ones who only have the good of mankind in their hearts.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  11. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Well, she did run the Home Office for many years, which oversees the British security services, and in that role was pretty widely regarded as competent and effective.

    Cutting the numbers of police, though...that was a bad move.
     
  12. GiantMonkeyMan

    GiantMonkeyMan High Inquisitor

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    Then raise the workers’ bomb on high,
    Beneath its cloud we’ll gladly die,
    For though it sends us all to hell,
    It kills the ruling class as well.
     
  13. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Would you like a spoonful of context to help swallow all the half-truths you spouted there?

    Yeah, she seemed to do a good job whilst running the Home Office. But since she left there's been lots more attacks. To me that suggests either it was the inevitable consequence of the policies she implemented (such as dramatically slashing police budgets), or that her chosen replacement is useless. Or some combination of the two. And neither is a good thing for a Prime Minister.
     
  14. fire

    fire High Inquisitor

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    Invictus is right. Corbyn is of the anti-liberal left, sympathetic to the likes of the IRA/Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran/Russia just because they oppose the West and perceived western imperialism - as if these groups arent far worse.

    I still prefer him to May on domestic anti-austerity/NHS funding grounds, and because british foreign policy hardly matters nowadays anyway, but we shouldnt be blind to Corbyn's real flaws.

    The Left historically stands against oppression everywhere; Corbyn and the Stop the War british illiberal left spits on that proud history.
     
  15. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Nothing got resolved with the IRA until we sat down and talked to them. Deploying more troops didn't solve it, killing people didn't solve it, talking to people solved it. Maybe if our Governments did a little more talking and a little less killing, the world would be a much more peaceful place.
     
  16. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    I thought the controversy wasn't that Corbyn wanted dialogue, but that he refused to condemn IRA and the others, and state that their actions were wrong?
     
  17. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman Prestige DLP Supporter

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    He's drawn a fairly fine line, condemning their actions but not their existence. He acknowledged that they've got legitimate grievances, and at the same time utterly condemned their use of violence. He also condemned the use of violence against them.

    His approach to these issues is one I quite respect, because its actually got a chance of being successful. You don't get people to the negotiating table by shouting to all and sundry about how awful they are. You have to extend an olive branch.
     
  18. Invictus

    Invictus Heir

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    Indeed. Sit down and talk with ISIS and Hezbollah and Hamas. Works great. Russia too. That whole reset button is just doing wonders for Ukraine.

    I mean, I could point out that isn't force doesn't preclude dialog and you're painting a ridiculous charicature of prove who are just opposed to stay put while being attacked, but then, why bother? But please. Explain why the IRA and Hezbollah and Hamas and Russia should be trusted and directly dealt with instead of the pacific political organizations that stand for the same thing like the Lebanese parties before Hezbollah became Lebanon army, the Palestinian Authority, the non-IRA nationalist parties, etc. But please give me the context where civilian killers who thrive on terror and extremism are the parties that should be recognized and engaged with, and not the people who try to build an actual pacific legit movement.

    I mean, everywhere I read said that IRA laid down it's arms because it had lost popular support and most all of its demands were being met thanks to agreement with actual parties, but I'm sure appeasement is what did them in.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  19. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman Prestige DLP Supporter

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    And whats the alternative? More death, more violence?
     
  20. Invictus

    Invictus Heir

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    Oh. We're not doing politics now, it's about feels. How nice. Like, how about a police of balance where military action is balanced and used when needed, not unilaterally ruling it out just because some of the causes of the other side are good, trying to solve it by engaging with parties that don't use cowardly methods on civilians and thus giving them legitimacy and encouraging other parties to do the same to be recognized and appeased, or just facing that maybe, just maybe, because people have good reasoning, it doesn't make what they do less monstrous and that they should be punished for it?

    You can help Lebanon without appeasing to Hezbollah. You can help Palestine without pretending Hamas isn't crazy. You can encourage a better relationship in Ireland without saying IRA was right all along to do what they did. You can engage with Russia but doesn't mean you need to abandon Ukraine and other countries to it.

    Like, isn't awfully insidious to say that these kind of organizations are the flag bearers of what their populations want? Instead of violent hijackers who are using it to do power plays? Nah. That's just imperialism am I right. One people terrorist is another freedom fighter.

    Funny thing is, using violence on them deslegitimize the governments, but not the terrorists. Perhaps, if you can't differentiate something like, say, the Vietcongs and ISIS, maybe, just maybe, you have an issue.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017