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Mini Mafia #7 - Concussion Mafia

Discussion in 'Little Italy' started by Eidolonic, May 5, 2016.

  1. Prophylaxis

    Prophylaxis Muggle

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    OK I was leaning Acio at the start of the Day since there's so much that would make Cobalt scum.

    But after rereading I am slightly leaning towards Cobalt. This is so hard for me since gun to my head I pick Acio because of setupgaming (of course there's a two shot doctor?????) and Cobalt has had so many genuine moments thoughout the game.

    - I've reread the FS scum game Acio linked me and one thing I noticed is that he basically did not post until page 8 and posted some weak-sounding posts. In this game Acio is much more engaged and he's been posting a lot both in the QT and in the thread.

    - The early game interactions. There was one with Snowvon that looks sooo organic:
    Like, maybe this is some expert scum distancing? But I'm kind of hesitating pulling the trigger on Acio, mainly due to these interactions.

    Implying that there's an /actual reason/ to scumread you is.. kind of bad.

    Cobalt: What was your mindset/thought process while making this post?

    ---------- Post automerged at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------

    Acio in neighborchat

    Acio why do you "in your experience" rather than "it's my role"?
     
  2. Acionyx

    Acionyx Muggle

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    Newcomb asked me if they were equivalent terms and I'd never heard the word neighborizer before following american gods
     
  3. Prophylaxis

    Prophylaxis Muggle

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    OK, thanks. That was something that interested me when I was rereading.

    I dunno, if Cobalt is scum here then he either has to be mafia doctor (and has known that doc is a safe claim) but ugh.

    I will hammer tomorrow. I need a night to sleep on it. Last night I was so deadset on Acio being scum, heh.
     
  4. Cobalt

    Cobalt Squib

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    At that point I was trying to bullshit that I protected myself instead of Fonti to hopefully wine scum into not shooting me again the next night phase. But given the way that phase went I fullclaimed and came clean that not only did I only have two stocks but also couldn't protect myself.

    Also:

    See no, there's a reason I say things like that. I can't even count how many times scum has tried to push on me during for stupid meta reasons when I'm town and because there isn't enough in my gameplay to push me via my posts / interactions / tone / etc. they either do things like setupgaming or other dumb meta to try to push me without giving a reason that's actually in the context of the GAMEPLAY.

    It gets me immensely frustrated. So I always double down and tell somebody to find something in the meat and potatoes of it all or gtfo, basically.

    ---------- Post automerged at 01:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 AM ----------

    Knowing Snowvon in general, that's not necessarily organic.

    I don't wanna knock your observations but early game is the EASIEST point in time to lay down good distancing so that when it pops up later it benefits whoever might be left alive at that point.

    Let me know if you have any more questions directed at me but I had to address that little bit in particular because if we lost because of a stupid w/w early distance interaction I'd never forgive myself.
     
  5. Acionyx

    Acionyx Muggle

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    This is totally the way town phrases things when scum's revealed to them absolutely
     
  6. Cobalt

    Cobalt Squib

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    I'm trying to talk about it from Proph's perspective. Lol.
     
  7. Acionyx

    Acionyx Muggle

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    Which isn't useful in the slightest from the perspective of someone who knows the answer; it's just another for the pile of cobalt trying to project ~careful/thoughtful~ as though those are town qualities period much less appropriate ones for his current situation

    The only thing "talking about it from prophs perspective" accomplishes is trying to indicate ~I'm thinking about the game~ because this is apparently the only thing he's got left; he's had a full day and hasn't brought those "examples of dishonesty" he claimed to have


    Gee it's almost like he's doing the exact same things that sloth and von did in the earlygame.
     
  8. Cobalt

    Cobalt Squib

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    Lol, yeah, sure, whatever you say Acio.

    I haven't dug any further because I don't feel I need to. Proph has been reading the entire thread, there's nothing I can point out that he probably hasn't seen already.

    I know you're scum, and I know that Proph has a good head on his shoulders and will be able to make that decision for himself.

    I'm not trying to project careful/thoughtful/etc. Talking about it from the perspective of the person whose vote is going to decide the entire game is for the purpose of that person and that person only. I didn't do it for me, and I didn't do it for you. The fact that you've focused on my tone so far this phase when it's F3 and YOU are the one that's been looking frustrated and frazzled only makes me feel better about it honestly.

    ---------- Post automerged at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 PM ----------

    And not for nothing, my case was a shit ton better than yours so I don't feel the need to elaborate on it. I mean come on, at least I tried.
     
  9. Prophylaxis

    Prophylaxis Muggle

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    Currently summarizing stuff.

    I will end the game tonight.
     
  10. Cobalt

    Cobalt Squib

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    Prophylaxis

    I won't be around for too much longer tonight.
     
  11. Acionyx

    Acionyx Muggle

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    I'm not waiting much longer tonight either. One for the road:

    As if there's anything for him to feel he's still unable to be sure because he can't break out of the scum mindset that overthinks every damn thing.
     
  12. Prophylaxis

    Prophylaxis Muggle

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    So, here's basically a list of pros and cons what I've liked and disliked about Cobalt and Acio.

    Acio

    PROS

    - His near-constant stream of scumhunting and analysis. I'm echoing Newcomb's thoughts here - he's been engaged and been bouncing ideas with Newcomb ever since Day 1 started. From my experience with neighbor chats, it's easy to fake posting constantly either in the neighbor chat or in the thread, doing BOTH would be something pretty darn impressive. In both of the Acio scumgames I've looked at, Acio has displayed noticeably less drive to solve the game, and he had a lot more questions without follow up. This is honestly my biggest reason to townread Acio here, since I have a feeling that Acio's scumgame is a lot like mine where you absolutely hate rolling it. I've been in this situation before, and Acio's play this game feels like he's having fun.

    - Some of the genuineness he's displayed in the thread. Stuff like "Lol I just posted that in my QT", "vote me! and push other people to vote me!" are fairly townie.

    - I've stated this before, but why does he reread, decide that lynching me ends the game, then goes to Cobalt on the final Day? This feels much more in line with townie indecision - like I've said, scum!Acio here just pushes the Kai -> Cobalt world every day, all day. It's a no brainer decision for scum.

    - Some of the interactions. Stuff from Snowvon "why you gotta be like this to me" and "Tell me how the question helps do anything and I'll answer happily" from Acio to Sloth are pretty organic interactions.

    CONS

    - Setupgaming. If you assume that Eido "had" to include a tracker/doc/one shot vig vs Goon/Goon/???, Acio as scum JoaT with a neighbor, rolecop, roleblock shot makes the most sense. Acio neighborizes Newcomb N1, kills fonti N2, rolecops Cobalt N3, learns that Cobalt is two shot doc, then kills fonti N4. That "makes" the most sense. However, modgaming is stupid and it's definitely possible that Eido put a scum doctor or something that's safe to claim to test the behavioral analysis of town, so this argument is basically nil.

    If it isn't and Acio is scum, feel free to yell at me postgame. I bet there's a ton of yelling in the obs chat already to be honest.

    - Some of the interactions, specifically the Sloth ones. If Sloth decided to pressure the ever too common TOWN/TOWN/SCUM, then Acio fits right in. Sloth's play also makes sense as a last-minute distance when he goes "eenie meenie miney scum" and votes Acio. Plus, Snowvon says he's gonna buddy Acio and never follows up on that. Also worth noting is Acio's first post where he calmly answers Sloth.

    So yeah. There are definitely reasons to scumread Acio, but in my mind it's mostly due to other factors other than behavior. If Acio is scum this game, he's played a flawless behavioral game, and deserves to be a top tier player. I'm definitely willing to account for those worlds, but.. I don't really see them as likely?

    Let's move onto Cobalt.

    Cobalt

    PROS

    - Incredibly blase and unconcerned during Days 1 and 2, where his scumteam is just getting rekt. I have a hard time seeing Cobalt just going along with the lynches and being utterly breezy about it. I have to imagine that Snowvon/Sloth getting caught Days 1 and 2 would prompt at least a moment of panic, not this.. unconcern. Also worth mentioning: "OOPS I FORGOT THE GAME STARTED" which.. can come from town and scum who forgot to check their role PM, but it's more likely to come from town? Like I'm thinking the way how Snowvon townread Lowtierhero in WH13.

    - "Sloth lynch is ez. Not sure if scum or wallflowering town that isn't trying." - if Cobalt is scum I feel like he doesn't include that second sentence in there. That feels like townie speculation over "I KNOW SLOTH IS MY SCUMBUDDY AND WE'RE LYNCHING HIM." He also just.. says "oh ok" and votes Snowvon. Like that's /smooth/.

    - Softclaims doc with "if we have a medic we keep font anyways". I don't see scum softclaiming doc, claiming vanilla townie, THEN claiming doc. Like, that's a very risky conga line for scum to take. I have no idea what is going through scum!Cobalt's brain when he does that.

    - Shot fonti even though fonti was heavily townreading Cobalt. This is a WiFOMy point, but it's a small point.

    - Doc claim. It's there. Contributes to the setupgaming argument.

    CONS

    - Boasting about scum game. This is kind of a little scumtell I've developed since I've played with a ton of people who like to wag town in the face by publicly boasting how good their scumgame is. It's small, but I've lost to people who have done this.

    - What I'm seeing from Cobalt is someone who has a lot of genuine moments, but is also really good at faking them. The "**** me I didn't protect fonti" was a really good reaction once the Day started, but it was also fake since Cobalt was only a two-shot doc. If Cobalt is good to fake that reaction, then what's to say that he can fake it all the way lylo?

    Like:
    This looks soooo good and soo genuine, but it's also 100% fake. That kind of makes me take the rest of the genuine moments with a small grain of salt.

    - Mostly absent for the beginning of the game. Like I've said, I tend to default lynch people who haven't really been playing the game since it's more easier to play out the later Days rather than contribute to the gamesolving of Days 1 and 2.

    - The "actual reason to scumread me". That makes me queasy since.. if you're town, there should be no actual reasons to scumread you, since you're town. The actual scumread thing makes me feel like it's a minor slip.

    - Minor point but him townreading me off the bat for the big post kind of felt weird. I did not expect to be 100% in the clear there.

    ------

    So, yeah. Honestly, they're both EXTREMELY unlikely to be scum; however, there has to be scum somewhere, and this is the hand we are dealt with.

    The main reasons I'm townreading Cobalt are the genuine reactions and the doc claim, which I felt he approached in a fairly townie way. Like, I would never ever lynch Cobalt if we weren't in this situation.

    Ultimately it boils down to Acio being here and Cobalt not. If you take all of Cobalt's townie tone then he really has not done much, while Acio has actively hunting the scum and also has had genuine reactions.

    Acio has the stronger behavior, but if we go by modgaming, Cobalt wins 100% of the time. I think behavior is stronger than mechanics. This is why I think Cobalt is scum. (Or more accurately; I think Acio is just More Townie, which leaves Cobalt in the PoE).

    So.

    If Acio is scum here, I congratulate him and admit that he's played literally flawless behavior game. Faking reactions at all the right times, picking up the scumreads on Sloth and Snowvon, and then solving the game repeatedly during Days 1 and 2 without prompt. From what I'm seeing of Acio's scum game, that's a major reversal of his game and he deserves to win the game because of it - no, the entire scumteam does, because Sloth and Snowvon distanced well enough to fool Newcomb and I.

    I think it's just more likely that Cobalt is scum. The doc claim is a point in his favor, but I think he is a Mafia Doctor (or told that doctor is a safe claimable role) and was just really good at faking all of the reactions. Truth be told (and I've said tons of times) if Cobalt is scum here it's mostly because Acio is just that much townier.

    I very much admit that I may lose this game here to scum!Acio; if that happens, hats off to him. You've played a great game. I will be majorly educated when I read the obs chat, and we will be better mafia players next time.

    But, in the end -

    Vote : Cobalt

    May the better side prevail.

    ---------- Post automerged at 09:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------

    I am on the edge of my seat, but: Please be right.

     
  13. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Chief Warlock

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    Day Six Ends!

    "I can tell something is wrong. In years I've never been put to the test like this. What am looking for?"

    "Conspiracy theorists of the world unite."

    "I always felt a man's grip on his club is like a man's grip on his world."

    "Yeah well, I think your grip is on a scum world. I juts can't make sense of some of the actions you would have had to have taken."

    "Well, I've done some things that've made less sense."

    "Yeah well, chat shit, get lynched."

    ---

    "You know, somehow 'I told you so,' just doesn't quite cut it."

    "I like Shrek."

    "This part of the game... this part right here... this part is called happiness."

    "PEACE!"

    ---

    Cobalt has been lynched!


    ---

    Game Over!


    ---

    QT Links: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/c4ggBJmthDy

    ---

    Note: All flavor is courtesy of Waco. Thanks!
     
  14. Vaimes

    Vaimes First Year

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    But Proph, Acio was right there.
     
  15. Prophylaxis

    Prophylaxis Muggle

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    Massive wave of relief

    Oh my god this game.
     
  16. Newcomb

    Newcomb Headmaster

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    Fuck yeah Proph. I knew you'd make the right call. Acio was just... town.

    I said this in Obs, but for the record I think this is actually a pretty stunning example of PoE and townreads just working. Even though we had to lynch through literally all of the PoE, the townblock held and it was correct.

    GG town, Acio please stay forever.

    Sloth, I hope you stick around. Solid effort.

    Cobalt you played a pretty slick scumgame IMO. I think you easily could have won if the townblock hadn't just been That Solid.

    ---------- Post automerged at 10:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ----------

    Oh right thanks Eido for hosting, and thank you to Waco for the really interesting flavor.
     
  17. Cobalt

    Cobalt Squib

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    OH MY GOD I WAS SO CLOSE UGWRHFDBIOIERQFHDGJSBNew
     
  18. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Chief Warlock

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    Thanks to everyone for playing!

    And special thanks to Proph, Mal, and Ollie for replacing in.
     
  19. Cobalt

    Cobalt Squib

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    Acionyx props to you, honestly.

    I took you to F3 because you were pushing Proph as the last lynch and that flip had me reeling and I had to change tactics entirely. I also COMPLETELY slipped when I said I hadn't seen Proph's post before the one I posted which was why I didn't immediately condemn you after Proph didn't hammer me.

    Bottom line I'm proud of myself for making it this far and ALMOST winning in a game where I was handed possibly the worst hand by both of my scum buddies tanking D1 and D2. This was EXHAUSTING. But it was also really good practice. After two recent scum victories where I pretty much steamrolled town, being the last one alive against 10 townies was a nerve-wracking mess and it made me play in a way that I probably haven't done before honestly.

    That and being the mafia doctor helped or I probably would have died a lot sooner. Knowing it was safely claimable was basically my safety net.

    ---------- Post automerged at 01:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 AM ----------

    And thanks for the host Eido. Was one of the most fun games I've had in a long time.

    ---------- Post automerged at 01:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 AM ----------

    Given that some of the people here have only seen scumgames where I've failed horribly I'm actually really happy with this. Normally I WOULD ragequit a game where there was no hope of winning after early losses, I wasn't lying about that. Decided to plug it out for the long haul this time.
     
  20. Eidolonic

    Eidolonic Chief Warlock

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    Cobalt

    Well played!

    I think you might have had higher odds of victory claiming VT and going hyper-engaged once you could start to play, but I was expecting town to go 'uhhhhh, two goons flipped, one of these PR does not belong from a balance perspective, and it's probably the doc'.

    But taking the path that I've taken in a few games before, where you make a line of play that is -EV scum to make, in order to let town talk themselves into you never being scum is a very viable thing.

    Just super volatile and risky!

    Thanks for the sake of game health and entertainment for not just rolling over and dying when you realized your team was sunk, though, heh. Much appreciated!