News (that doesn't deserve its own thread)

Discussion in 'Real Life Discussion' started by Taure, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. nahbutualright

    nahbutualright Fourth Year

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    Ghostbusters is a perfect example of this shit though. They had nothing, other than ‘oh look, women!’ and they pushed out that atrocity because they thought that’s all they needed. Ghostbusters is something that worked precisely once. It was lightning in a bottle and even when they tried again with the same director and cast it came out shit. It is the ultimate example of a ‘let it rest’ franchise but they wanted to fix the white male problem.

    With those actresses they had all the talent they needed to make something original and good, if they had had a decent director and writers with vision who knows what they could have made, but instead we got Awkward improv shit wearing a ghostbusters skin suit because they didn’t have anything else and you’ll fucking like it because if not you’re a sexist/racist whatever.

    James Bond is fine as is. Ghostbusters should have been left alone. They should make new things if they want to change the formula.
     
  2. Ludwig

    Ludwig Second Year

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    Honestly if you use Rotten Tomatoes as an argument I'll just not read the rest of your comment.
     
  3. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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    You can read whatever you want. I'm merely countering the argument that fans think TLJ is good.

    Because from what I'm seeing, they're not agreed on universal acclaim. And I'd like citations to counter my point, tyvm.
     
  4. Ludwig

    Ludwig Second Year

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    Do you also go on Trending on Twitter to see the general opinion? Because places like that and Rotten Tomatoes is where people go to join a bandwagon.

    You can use it however you want, still doesn't make it a good place to look.

    Edit : Please don't feel like I'm attacking you. I have my own reasons to hate sites like Rotten Tomatoes and I really don't have anything against you for using and liking said site, I just disregard things that come from that place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  5. Zombie

    Zombie John Waynes Teeth Prestige DLP Supporter

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    They dont' want to make new things, they want to capitalize on past successes. Re: every reboot ever.
     
  6. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    That is not remotely what I meant. I've been saying for a while now that I think James Bond is a certain specific collection of tropes. I said explicitly that it's about who the character is, not his skin color. If Dev Patel can sell Bond as I think Bond should be, I'm open to the idea.

    I know. I was being sarcastic. I was making the point that the label of Bond (or in the case of TLJ, Luke) isn't enough, because there's a specific character behind that label.
     
  7. nahbutualright

    nahbutualright Fourth Year

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    Yeah? And it’s shit whether they go for progressive points or not. There have been remakes that have worked, even surpassed the original, it goes back to that whole vision thing I was talking about.
     
  8. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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    Even if it's a bandwagon - something I made actual reference to in a slightly different setting, but one that still bloody fits the bill - there are very few sites that aggregate user ratings. I neither like nor use RT often, but it and IMDB were the only two sites I could think of. If you don't want to use RT, then use my sodding other data point and not stop reading because I posted something you didn't agree with for whatever reason.

    FTFY.
     
  9. Ludwig

    Ludwig Second Year

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    I "used apologetic words" not to retract from what I said but to show that I'm not doing this to be a passive-aggressive cunt like you feel the need to be.

    Don't be so sensitive.
     
  10. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    Pretty much my opinion on the matter as well. I doubt too many would take issue with something that was a proper Bond movie in all respects, and just happened to have a black James Bond. My worry is more that instead of getting an otherwise good Bond movie that just happens to have a black Bond, we'd end up with a tone-deaf attempt to make the movie all about how Bond is black now, until we end up with some Hollywood abomination featuring James Bond, Gangsta Ghetto Avenger.

    If they feel the need to rework Bond to fit an actor of a different race or gender, it starts to bring up the classic problem of the Ship of Theseus. How many changes can you make to James Bond before he (or she) ceases to be James Bond? If they make Bond female, non-white, and make her a UN-aid worker from a developing nation instead of a British super-spy, and replace all the spy action with philosophical discussions of the evils of the cis white male patriarchy ... well that doesn't sound very much like James Bond to me.

    Okay, I doubt things would be that bad, but I trust the point got across. The world being what it is at the moment, it's certainly a possibility that changing Bond's race or gender would make the writers change other aspects of the story. Jane Bond would either need to shift to having Bond Guys, be written as a lesbian, or have the romance interests dropped entirely. Black or Asian Bond might well see some story changes made to address his race. And so on.

    All that said, I don't hate the idea of doing, for lack of a better term, a James Bond Cinematic Universe. There are supposed to be other 00 agents besides 007, so expanding the franchise seems like an easy way to go.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  11. Alistair

    Alistair First Year

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    Actually Lesbian female bond, that'd be a pretty clever ploy for any studio. They can push the SJW agenda, whilst still having gratuitous lesbian sex scenes with hot Bond girls to appeal to the more... lets say traditional Bond fans.

    Seriously though, Bond has been going on now for a very long time. The source material was written by a guy who grew up presumably reading Biggles and Jeeves & Wooster, then spent his adult life complaining about the dangers of Communism. It's not a very contemporary starting point. Then there's the films. The longest gap between films is only 6 years in a franchise running from 1962 to present. During that time certain expectations have been made. The plots and casts are quite formulaic. A large part of that is defined by the character of Bond himself. Trying to change that character, whilst theoretically admirable, would interfere with a tried, tested and crucially very successful formula that has practically defined the whole 'spy movie' genre. It probably could be done, and it could even be a good movie, but to many of the long running fans of the franchise, a change like that would make it, well, just not very 'Bond'. Let's not forget the biggest changes that they've made to Bond in 50 years worth of films is that he doesn't smoke anymore, he's marginally less posh (although he still has a big scottish country house and a best British big game rifle) and he wears a seatbelt. That's all they've managed. In 50 years.

    As for 'modernising' Bond, hmm, I'm not sold. Personally, I think they've struggled a bit just trying to get Bond away from the Cold War, let alone making him relevant in an entirely modern setting. If he's not working in 2018, then I'd much rather the next couple films be set in the '70's and keep the character, than change the character to fit the present day. Also, what's the point in trying to make him 'realistic' when the entire premise is so ridiculous. Sure, having a film about Jane, the modern M16 operative who spends her time in the basement of a London office analysing Chinese or North Korean email traffic and has never left Britain for 'business' is probably more factually accurate, but do you want to watch it and is it a Bond film?

    That said, adaptations of Bond work well. Mission Impossible is basically 'American Bond' whilst Tomb Raider is basically 'Female Bond' and both are very successful, so if we want to do a modern, socially acceptable Bond, crack on. Just don't ruin the existing franchise to do it.
     
  12. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    I'm not sure I'd say that. The Bond movie franchise didn't really do that much in the way of Cold War action going up directly the Soviets, the bad guys were usually SPECTRE or some other other super-criminal/terrorist/madman with a superweapon.
     
  13. Oment

    Oment The Betrayer

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    Over in Florida, it's raining iguanas:

     
  14. Zombie

    Zombie John Waynes Teeth Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Man, I need to go there with some skewers, make some tasty iguana on a stick. Or maybe, start my own Iguana bits franchise!
     
  15. point09micron

    point09micron Third Year

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    They had a Lesbian Female James Bond movie out last year. It was called Atomic Blonde, and it was pretty great.
     
  16. blob

    blob Fourth Year

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    Wasn’t iguana on a stick Fallout food?
    Quite fitting, what with the nuclear dick measurements and such. Probably some good bottlecaps to be made

    Please keep Bond as is. Sure, black Bond could be good and female Bond probably could be good as well - but I’d bet that while it could be, it won’t be.
     
  17. Zombie

    Zombie John Waynes Teeth Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Exactly. I thought it'd be a great idea. We can have a taste of Fallout, before the Fallout!
     
  18. Nevermind

    Nevermind Second Year

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    This made me laugh.

    That being said, it’s actually been on my list from the time I watched the trailer. Wonder whether it’s going to appear on Netflix or Sky anytime soon…
     
  19. pbluekan

    pbluekan Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    Pretty sure I’ve seen that porno.

    I’m reasonably sure that bond could easily be black and maintain the same sort of character we are used to. The foundations of it, really, are just an intelligent, charismatic, womanizer with too much money and a penchant for destruction. It’s doable, so long as the other tropes are kept the same.

    Lesbian bond, while massively entertaining, doesn’t sound particularly doable, if only because I can’t see many actresses pulling off the stoic, carelessly badass routine.
     
  20. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    Not to mention that there'd probably be a much stronger inclination to write Female Bond differently. Hollywood generally seems far more comfortable with black action heroes than female ones