1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

Pet Peeves v.8

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Dark Syaoran, Oct 20, 2013.

Not open for further replies.
  1. A.K.$J6-J5

    A.K.$J6-J5 Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    277
    Location:
    London
    Why is it "Evil"?
     
  2. Starfox5

    Starfox5 Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    247
    I think that's a bit reaching as an interpretation.
     
  3. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,819
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    I, on the other hand, consider it the completely natural interpretation. The afterlife is the obvious place for souls to go after being separated from the body, and in the afterlife they area clearly forever gone. There's no resurrecting the dead, Dumbledore was quite clear about that. I didn't even consider the idea that Dementors destroy souls until I saw it years later in fanfiction.
     
  4. Starfox5

    Starfox5 Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    247
    But as we know souls can be called back from the afterlife. That's what the resurrection stone does. So they are certainly not "forever gone".
     
  5. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    5,048
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Silesia
    Speaking to the dead and actually resurrecting them is not the same.
     
  6. Starfox5

    Starfox5 Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    247
    Never said it was. But if you can speak to the souls then one would be hard pressed to still claim that they are forever gone.
     
  7. A.K.$J6-J5

    A.K.$J6-J5 Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    277
    Location:
    London
    they are since the resurrection stone is gone, a fairytale for children
     
  8. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,819
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    Firstly, the resurrection stone is pretty rare and extraordinary magic. Its existence, even if believed true, would not affect the way people speak about the general effects Dementor's kiss.

    Secondly, we don't really know what the resurrection stone does -- if it brings back the actual souls, of if it's some kind of elaborate magical construct.
     
  9. Starfox5

    Starfox5 Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    247
    It's taking more and more assumptions to maintain that souls are not destroyed by dementors. I think the simpler explanation - they are destroyed - is the correct one in this case.
     
  10. A.K.$J6-J5

    A.K.$J6-J5 Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    277
    Location:
    London
    is it not simpler to believe dementors remove the soul without death then they kill the soul, and wouldn't Harry and Sirius souls be destroyed because of what happened at the lake at the end of PoA
     
  11. Starfox5

    Starfox5 Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    247
    It's clear that no matter what the dementor does to souls after sucking them out, it did not succeed in PoA - no soul was sucked out.
     
  12. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,819
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    You're going to have to provide argumentation for this. I don't see it as simpler at all. For the resurrection stone to have an impact on the discussion, you have to assume:

    1. The resurrection stone actually resurrects souls.

    2. The resurrection stone is widely believed to exist.

    3. Wizards take the resurrection stone into account when they refer to general magical rules surrounding death.

    Only with these assumptions can you claim that wizards saying "the soul is lost" cannot refer to it being in the afterlife.

    I, on the other hand, simply refer to the much simpler general rule widely accepted by wizards: death is an ultimate, impassable barrier. Once something crosses it, it cannot come back. A soul in the afterlife is completely gone, never to interact with the world again.
     
  13. crimson sun06

    crimson sun06 Order Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2013
    Messages:
    820
    As someone who is a practising Hindu, I like to believe that the soul is immortal and what the dementors do is simply remove it from its vessel unless canon states explicitly that the kiss destroys it. It is open to interpretation as to what happens to the soul after the kiss
     
  14. Starfox5

    Starfox5 Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    247
    Even when we assume that the soul survives, judging by what Snape in P.o.A. says about how horrible the kissing act is, it's still a sign of how rotten and evil a system is where such a punishment is used. And I maintain that if it was simply death by an exotic means, then Remus and co. would say that, and not talk about the soul being gone forever.
     
  15. crimson sun06

    crimson sun06 Order Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2013
    Messages:
    820
    I think a Dementor's kiss is equivalent to capital punishment in the Wizarding world. Casting unforgivables gets you a life sentence in Azkaban and not death.
    So the magical's reaction to it is probably what ours is to executions
     
  16. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,819
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    Oh, it's not death. The Dementor's Kiss is very much not the same thing as the Killing Curse; they have visibly different effects. A person is more than their soul; they are their soul and their body. The Dementor's Kiss removes the soul from the body, but the person isn't dead yet, not until the body dies too.
     
  17. golan

    golan Temporarily Banhammered DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    567
    Location:
    Central Europe, for now.
    According to Hagrid, it's worse than death, whatever that means.
     
  18. Peter North

    Peter North Dark Lord

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,897
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    I agree, the dementor's kiss is not meant as death penalty as we know it.
    Of course from what I got out of the HP series was that in many way the magical world believed that death was the ultimate horror. You have the method for which Voldemort tried to stay alive and the wizard worlds belief that killing someone was the worst crime you could commit.
     
  19. Odran

    Odran Fourth Champion

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,186
    I suppose one pet peeve of mine is whenever in a fanfic someone claims that the Killing Curse is painless. Granted, I don't see it said all that much, but it still irritates me.
     
  20. crimson sun06

    crimson sun06 Order Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2013
    Messages:
    820
    Its as close to Capital Punishment that the Wizarding World gets though.
     
Loading...
Not open for further replies.