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Poland 2015 Elections

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ScottPress, Aug 8, 2015.

  1. blob

    blob Fifth Year

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    Not that I disagree that a certain person could use a heart attack (would make for a very ironic ‘act of god’ indeed), but I’m not sure what the periodic ‘hang them from the trees’ and other calls for executions bring to the discussion.
     
  2. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    Will it?

    I don't think so.

    I think that there's no getting off this wild ride, and the train is getting faster and faster...

    We're gonna crash, friend. We're gonna crash.
     
  3. Jibril

    Jibril Headmaster

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    Collapse, crash - same thing. Poland will get shafted and we'll get booted from the West for a generation of two.
     
  4. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    Or we'll become North Korea 2.0 with the Duck in charge.
     
  5. Invictus

    Invictus Fourth Champion

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    The best thing is that Poland is terrified with reason of Russia, but is spitting on their main ally. What they think will happen once they get the boot from the EU? Donald Fucking Trump will save them? Pfft. Man. I know the pain of stupid people voting repeatedly for corrupt, lying shits. Good luck for you and don't forget to flee when things go to shit.
     
  6. Hesser

    Hesser Squib

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    Funny times we live in.

    We've got a party that claims that it doesn't like/is scared of Russia, so it needs strong army and strong allies. This party's actions lead to weakening of all of the significant alliances and army. At the same time, they govern the country in more and more putinesque (is that even a word?) way.

    What is more, we've got no opposition at all. Parties that are in oppositions are incredibly unconvincing, they've got no political program, no interesting ideas, nothing to convince people, no strong leaders - nothing.

    I wait for the disaster.

    This is my plan. There is patriotism, and then there is common sense. Enough pople died and suffered for my country, I do not plan to be one of them.
     
  7. Celestin

    Celestin Master of Death

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    If he only had an excuse Kaczyński probably would do early elections right now. With the recent changes in the cabinet that removed almost all controversial ministers and the opposition basically destroying itself from within at the moment because of something that should be a non issue, PiS most likely would finally have the constitutional majority.
     
  8. Invictus

    Invictus Fourth Champion

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    What caused the self destruction?
     
  9. Jibril

    Jibril Headmaster

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    39 opposition members did not show up to vote on citizen project about liberalization of abortion. Precisely speaking - about moving the project to a subcommision for further works. Their explanation ranged from 'I was sick', through 'I do not agree with the project and we have a compromise on the issue' to 'We are a new party and some of us did not know what they were voting on'.

    And only 9 votes more were required to proceed the project further. Fun fact - Kaczyński and some of the more note-worthy members of PiS voted in favor of further proceedings, so now they can go all 'we wanted to discuss this, but the opposition did not want to, so you see who really has your interest in mind'.
     
  10. Celestin

    Celestin Master of Death

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    The last bit is what makes it absurd. Kaczyński promised he will never vote against any popular initiative in a first vote because it's from citizens and it should be at least considered. It costs him nothing to appear like he's always read to talk and he can easily block it later. That the opposition did what they did only proves that there is nobody competent enough there for PiS to actually lose against.
     
  11. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    So ... you can pick between being governed by reactionary blockheads, or incompetent buffoons? I think this is the point where one might stop and wonder wtf went so horribly wrong. And then pack up and leave, I guess.

    As an aside, I fully expect your cabinet changes and some more friendly language to be enough to appease the commission re: Art. 7.
     
  12. corrwin

    corrwin Second Year

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    So one would think, for a while... and than some genius had an idea to criminalize "defamation of the Polish nation", and now we have public opinion worldwide reading NYT editorials about "Poland’s Holocaust Blame Bill". It may make it a bit difficult for some politicians, particularly in Germany and the US to play nice with the Law & Justice. Would be nice, if not for all the collateral damage that will probably destroy any advance we had with working through the bad parts of our history during the last three decades :/
    Of course, in Polish society, where 25% believe Jews used to kidnap Christian children to make matzo bread, our regime might get even more popular...
    The story seems to be quite popular in Israel, was mentioned in most major English-language media, I wonder if it's mentioned elsewhere...
     
  13. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    Oh, yes, that clusterfuck.

    On one hand, there was this gem: Obama says "Polish death camp". On the other, I think censorship is bad.

    Generally I'm of the opinion that people who think concentration camps were Polish in any way other than being located in Polish territory aren't worth my time. And only someone who knows practically nothing about WW2 history would say that there was no antisemitic sentiment among Poles or that Poles never had anything to do with German extermination efforts. Sith and absolutes, blah blah. And I think that it's alright to raise an "ekhem" when someone like Obama, who was giving a speech that had gone through the hands of his speechwriting department, says "Polish death camps" instead of the accurate and widely recognized alternative of "Nazi death camps". And don't say "German death camps" either, because it's not necessary and why piss off our neighbors for no good reason?

    But for the love of all that is good on this green Earth, fuck off with censorship. Are we going to have our own Count Dankula situation in the future? Some poor sod will make an obvious joke and will get dragged through courts because the authoritarian morons in power wanted to shake their fists at something? Is this the hill you want to die on? Is this what 50% of my paycheck is funding?
     
  14. corrwin

    corrwin Second Year

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    The funny thing is, even if you go with the government view on the problem - what they did had the exactly opposite effect. And the collateral damage... the blow to the reputation of Poland...
    And if you think that anti-Semitism in Poland was, and is, a very real problem... you might soon have to explain on your point of view, at length, in court.
    The 'young patriots' from faaar-right (and, allegedly, Hitler-worshipping) organisations wanted to march next to Israeli embassy to protest against Poland being called anti-Semitic, that would be the height of irony (but they were banned from doing so).
     
  15. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    We'll have "Polish death camps" popping up on 4chan and everywhere, I'm sure. Streisand effect represent. I might have to head over to The_Donald and see if Poland is still based.

    Fuckin A, let them march. Israel needs a distraction from that Jerusalem business anyway. The young Polish patriots should invite a representative from Yad Vashem to witness how non-antisemitic we are.
     
  16. Invictus

    Invictus Fourth Champion

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    Its pretty huge in international news yes. Journals are particularly loving to contrast the threats against and Israel reaction and the US stated worries. Basically 'you're anti-semitic and trying to hide it' angle is being played hard.

    And yeah, Polish collaborationism, while mostly restricted to the ethnic German minority (still Polish citizens) shouldn't be scrubbed out. Poland was always held up as heroic thanks to the efforts by the Polish Army/Air Force volunteers. But ofc doing this totally shifted the narrative to what "dirty secrets" Poland might be hiding. Which is minimal, specially compared to France who was rife with it, but thanks to how L&J has been playing the authoritarian angle (and that march, God, that fucking march), makes it so much easier to paint Poland as always having nazi-fascist tendencies, that is still present today.

    See, things like this?
    No one is going to mention, because thanks to L&J, the West learned to dislike Poland and distrust anything they do out of habit.
     
  17. corrwin

    corrwin Second Year

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    I've read about it, even this week, even in some of the texts criticizing the new law. But, to be honest, if we compare the amount of Polish trees in Yad Vashem to the size of population, Polish and Jewish, it looses some significance. And many Poles saving their Jewish neighbours had as much problems with other Poles as with the Gestapo.

    Anti-Semitism was rampant in pre-war Poland, after 1945, and also during the war. Sure, camps were German, and most of the acts of murder were committed by German security forces. Not all. Karski, guy who informed the Allies about the scale of the Holocaust, and himself one of the Righteous Among the Nations, wrote in his report that anti-Semitism was one thing connecting the occupiers to large part of the population, and Christians in general were not too sympathetic towards the Jews. Now we use the small group of heroes as a fig leaf to cover the unfriendly silence of the majority. Sure, not everybody would risk his or her life to save someone, but playing it safe does not make us a nation of heroes, just, at best, normal people.

    I believe that there is a strong political message in HP, progressive message, of equality, empowerment, a satire against racism and oligarchy, and so I tried to express my thoughts about Polish anti-Semitism during and around the war through... a short description of a Grindelwald-era AU that could conceivably be a place for, I don't know, a HP/Maus crossover.

    *

    In a version of Wizarding Britain, where Grindelwald’s rule was particularly long and harsh, only the Purebloods were tolerated by the regime. Or rather allowed to live, we should say, as it was a brutal occupation, with the regime draining the resources to finance further conquests, and killing everybody who dared question it.

    A point of some importance – it was an occupation by foreign forces, and the continental wizards and witches in Grindelwald’s service committed most of the atrocities uncovered by the American Expeditionary Forces that eventually ended Grindelwald’s Empire.


    This world had been quite racist since forever, especially since the Mud- and Half-bloods started to get uppity and demanded to be treated equally by the British magical society. Your average Pureblood would not actually want to kill the less-worthy magical people, you understand. Maybe some criminals would, but the proper wizards… maybe, after a few pints, they would joke about it, but never seriously consider it. No, the decent people of the pre-occupation Wizarding Britain would be perfectly satisfied with the Mudbloods being moved somewhere far away, like Madagascar perhaps. Their property, of course, would have to be confiscated to cover the cost of relocation, and given to the deserving poor among the better part of the society. It would be only fair, Purebloods would think, considering how these Mudbloods monopolized profitable business opportunities, keeping their morally and culturally superiors neighbours in destitution. Decent wizarding folk simply wanted to stop that, and to stop the advance of the impure on such important institutions as Hogwarts, where a few years before the invasion all non-pureblood teachers were sacked and the 10% quota for impure students introduced. Ok, maybe there were occasional burnings of Mudblood-owned commercial establishments, some shops and inns introduced the “only for Purebloods” policy, but the government never sanctioned most of these things. All the actual atrocities are a foreign concept of the occupation era. And once a Half-blood wizard killed a Pureblood kid who only wanted to have some fun and maybe threw a jinx or two at him…

    So, you have to always remember that, during the regime, it was the Death Eaters who killed 95% of the non-pureblood population. There was no self-government in the occupied Wizarding Britain and it’s a spit in the face of all the heroes of the resistance, and the brave Aurors who fought alongside the American Expeditionary Forces to suggest any culpability of the British Wizardry in the atrocities of the Foreign Occupiers. Maybe some Halfbloods, who returned from exile and wanted to get their homes back, were killed by unknown perpetrators, but you have to understand the difficulties in the management of the “post-halfblood property” in the post-occupation Britain and the fact that the new government was unable to question the difficult status quo there.

    And there were heroes. Quite a few Halfbloods and Mudbloods were rescued by brave Purebloods, so how dare you question what the rest did? If you dare, it’s up to three years in prison.
     
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