Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xiph0, Sep 1, 2008.
Preeety sure that's fake.
I'll check with an israeli I know, or Azi can at least confirm those translations.
Even if it's not I'm not sure what he's trying to prove.
That there are asshole Israelis? Yup. There are asshole Palestinians too. And Irish, and Americans, and Japanese.
It's probably not fake, which is the problem.
I don't act like I support any of these fag nuggets, and in fact would be pretty happy if the whole right-wing of Israeli would be carpet bombed into the next decade (which is like 60% of the population, lololololol)
The REAL problem lies in the demonization of Israel as a whole, you yourself just said Israel doesn't represent Judaism, so how the fuck are you getting off implying Israel is a unified nation "oppressing" palestinians to get off on their moral high horse?
People can't differentiate the fact that, OH SHIT ISRAELIS HAVE RIGHT AND LEFT WING TOO?!?!
Guess what, a recent survey conducted here shows that around 40% of Israelis don't believe in God, so the Judaism arguement is bullshit. The fact that government try to play the pity card doesn't mean that it applies to all of us and how we think. Another problem is that every time there is a high rise in terrorism, the people who get elected are, not really incidentally, right wing. See the rise of Yisrael Beitenu after the 2006 War, and the decline of the Labour party.
So yes, it is a never ending cycle of retardedness, because if the Palestinians would actually stop blowing themselves up and playing the pity card (which, granted, they are entitled to) and demonizing Israel in world media, and actually came to the table, the right-wing here wouldn't have a fucking leg to stand on and eventually they'd have a two-state solution with a sane government.
Also, gasp, I'm an Israeli that supports peace and a two-state solution? THATS A SHOCKER.
But I also support military action in response to terrorism, and as a soldier I'll do my damndest to get the mission done.
People also stand up for Palestinians by participating in ordinary protest and what happens to them? They get tear-gas and baton-rounds shot at them; they get attacked by riot police. There is an unsubtle disconnect between the Israeli response to Palestinian protest (which is broken up whether peaceful or not) and Israeli protest (which is respected, even lauded, as long as it follows the liberal agenda). Yes, there are Palestinians who participate in terrorism, I would never deny that, I merely believe that summing up all Palestinian protest as 'typically by detonating bombs in the middle of civilian crowds' is a ridiculous notion to follow. It would be along the lines of me saying that all Irish Republicans are terrorist bombers; no, they aren't.
I also want to respond to Aziraphale's post but it seems like we've hijacked a pictures thread for a discussion about Palestine/Israel. Perhaps a mod could take this to another thread?
...what riot police break up Palestinian protests? Are you retarded? Do you think Israeli Police has any jurisdiction in the west bank/Ramallah? I thought you were informed from your previous posts, but it seems you really aren't.
If you think Israeli police/IDF go into Palestinian protests just to break up some protest, at the risk of their lives, you don't really have any idea what you are talking about.
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=437596 - Israeli soldiers fire tear-gas at a funeral and a protest against the closure of the entrance to a village. Palestinians throw shit back.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3025016.stm - Woman killed when protesting against bulldozing of Palestinian houses.
http://www.ifex.org/israel/2011/05/24/qatamesh_detained/?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4ddc3e914f685dc0,0 - Palestinian academic arrested and held without charge.
http://silwanic.net/?p=11279 - Tear gas canisters fired at Palestinians by Israeli police sets Palestinian house on fire.
http://palestinesolidarityproject.o...-attacked-by-israeli-military-dozens-injured/ - Palestinian funeral procession fired upon by Israeli soldiers.
http://www.imemc.org/article/60510 - Palestinian children arrested after protest and held without legal representation.
Bold mine, did I miss anything?
Yes, you missed the point. Palestinians don't have a chance to form peaceful protest because from the onset their funerals are apparently percieved as being 'virtually all [...] expressing revenge cries and are accompanied by almost all praticipants armed with AK-47's' and the by-the-book response of Israeli forces is to drive up in armed vehicles and shoot tear-gas at those Palestinians pissed off enough to throw stones.
I've said before I don't support nationalism and mainly for the exact reasons that you display here. Having 'sand niggers' in your information makes it clear enough what your point of view in regards to the Palestinians is. I let the fact that you called me a 'retard' for having an opposing view to you slide but I would have preferred to participate in debate rather than you dismissing the evidence I gave you simply because it comes from websites dedicated to revealing the plight of Palestinians. Earlier in the thread you made mention of the 'demonizing Israel in world media' but the very fact that the only mention of Israeli abuses in regards to Palestinian protests on the bbc involved a white woman in 2003 was telling.
I've never made any claim that the Palestinians involved in these debacles weren't throwing stones and shouting at the Israeli forces present. It might be construed as 'provoking' the Israeli forces but I don't think it in any way justifies the response. It has, of course, lead to a ritualistic continuation of violence as you identified much like the anarchists and police in Greece but the difference between these situations is that there is never a chance for the Palestinians to form mass protest that isn't disrupted by police or the IDF. Also, you call Silwan a 'war zone' which once again reveals your dismissal of Palestinian lives. Such regions remind me distinctly of places like Free Derry; they are only war zones when the oppressing forces attempt to assert their dominance.
In response to your previous post that reveals to us that you are 'an Israeli that supports peace' and yet contradicts itself by saying 'in fact would be pretty happy if the whole right-wing of Israeli would be carpet bombed into the next decade' (obviously you are attempting to make a joke). A lot of the post indicates that you think I don't understand that there are israelis who dislike the treatment of Palestinians yet I even made mention of this in the post you are evidently responding to. I concede that perhaps I shouldn't have used 'jewish' in the ethnic sense as it confused the situation but I mostly meant 'Israeli' in that post; I am fully aware that the Israeli population isn't comprised of orthodox jews. I hope that clarifies it somewhat.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191967,00.html - A Palestinian homicide bomber blew himself up outside a sandwich shop in a busy commercial area near the central bus station in Tel Aviv on Monday, killing nine other people and wounding at least 60.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/aug/20/israel1 - A Palestinian suicide bomber blew apart a bus in the heart of Jerusalem last night as it carried religious Jews from a visit to the Wailing Wall, killing at least 20 people, including children, wounding more than 100 and inflicting the most serious blow yet to the six-week-old ceasefire. Israel immediately called off a plan to withdraw from four Palestinian cities on the West Bank and said it was freezing all other negotiations with the Palestinians. "The talks are frozen, as is the handover," a government source said.
http://articles.cnn.com/2003-03-05/...am-palestinian-hospital-officials?_s=PM:WORLD - A suicide bomber set off a powerful explosion that destroyed a suburban bus in the northern Israeli port city of Haifa on Wednesday, killing at least 15 Israelis and badly wounding at least 40, Israeli police said.
Here's my point, then. What's the correct response to this? The Palestinians don't have a chance to form a peaceful protest because they don't want one. This is true for both sides, they don't really want peace, and as sad as it is, that's the current climate of the Middle East. These bombers aren't what you can dismiss as individuals hurting the wants of the many; A virtual 100% of all bombers sent to Israel are all sent as 'military martyrs' by higher ups of Hamas or Fatah in the past. Hamas is the elected government of the Palestinians so they have engaged and continue to engage in their elected governement-sponsored terror. Mahmoud Abbas can cry around the world all he wants, the fact of the matter is he's sent these people to kill hundreds of entirely innocent Israeli civilians, just like Arafat before him.
My 'Location' refers to the fact that this is a godforsaken hole of human cesspool, barring none, including Israel.
The "Israelis who want peace" you refer to are nothing more than cancerous extreme left-wing activists, no better than our right-wing, who think they are actually helping the situation with the things they do. I was referring to the sane 30~% of Middle-Left leaning Israelis, who just want to live their lives. The ones who actually are the majority of the people who serve in the IDF, myself included.
---------- Post automerged at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 PM ----------
This isn't anything 'percieved', as opposed to anything you might read on the local news, I have seen this with my own eyes and from the first-hand accounts of my friends.
Azira, dude. GMM is putting out reasoned arguments and you are essentially jumping down his throat in the last page or so of posts. I get that you have a different take on things, but you're coming across as incredibly defensive and lashing out. For instance, your response to the sig quote about Palestinians, using the comparison to Satan children and whatever, was completely out of bounds.
...what? I just said the quote had as little validity as any extremely pro-Israel personality spouting bullshit about Palestinian satan children.
Which is to say, none.
Well, I'm not stepping into this because I've found a noticeable improvement in my temper and stress levels since I stopped doing the Israel-Palestine argument, but I figure Aziraphale's as likely to see this here more than anywhere else since he's carrying on a discussion:
Any thoughts on the PM I sent you, Az?
I'll be honest.
The middle east has been a hotbed of violence, war, oppression, suffering, extremism and hatred for hundreds of years. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is just another example of this.
But BOTH sides have their share of vicious, hate-mongering, mass murdering, religious nuts. And honestly I don't give a damn anymore about who wins and who loses. Because the violence, hate-mongering and religious extremism won't end even when the 'war' or 'conflict' does.
It'll just move to somewhere else in the middle east.
Now can this fucking thread get back to what it's supposed to be, that being posters and propaganda?
Take your discussion to one of the no doubt many relevant, already-existing threads. Please.
Edited. Because I felt like it.
This is a political poster thread, so we can point and laugh at how stupid ALL parties are. Take your bullshit elsewhere, and kindly stfu.
Separate names with a comma.