Do people really want to read about this? To me it's just another way to add angst to an otherwise angst-ridden universe (when you take a hard look at the Naruto world and don't Shonen it up).

If the Shadow Clone had such horrible limitations as what you folks are suggesting, the obvious answer would be for Naruto to just stop using it. But he's not smart enough for that, is he?

Do you think that nobody else would know the risks and mention them?

This sounds like a shitty premise for a story, hands down. But go ahead and write one and see how people respond to it.

 

Very shitty, and a lot of these ideas, while...creative, just seem stupid. You'd do better writing a story where Naruto doesn't use the Shadow Clone jutsu at all.

 

Seconded. This is the reasoning for why I questioned the concept in the first place.

 

I never intended or wanted anything as grandiose as most of these concepts. I intended to use any creative or thoughtful ideas from this discussion for insights that Hiruzen Sarutobi would ultimately gleam from Naruto or Naruto from himself. As the 3rd Hokage was going to be a large part of the story.

The Sarutobi in fanfiction is mostly used to showcase Naruto's anger and angst or used as a Jutsu dispensary at worst. Which is why I created this thread. Wanting ideas for more insightful conversation about a technique that above all defines Naruto.

I did say in my first post that any random thoughts or craziness would be accepted. People simply answered my request. Just not in ways I was going to use.

 

Just limit the things he can learn with them.

I always found it stupid that he uses clones to optimize his chakra use or to train martial arts. Those Shadow Clones are chakra constructs and shouldn´t behave like a human body, they have no chakra networks or muscles strings which limits the use of them enormously. If you combine that with splitting his chakra you should limited them enough. They still have great advantages like able to see, communicate, independent thought and impart Naruto with some of the knowledge but they are no longer a Deus Ex Machine.

 

Sounds lame. I don't see why people are always complaining about Shadow Clones (not at this point, at least).

 

The do have chakra networks. Hence how they can use techniques and fool the Byakugan. I don't understand the complaints either. Regardless of how much he can learn using the Tajuu Kage Bunshin, he still has to have the mind to use the techniques correctly in battle.

 

I think he's saying that they shouldn't have chakra networks, not that they don't have any.

 

Yeah.. they shouldn´t have any because they are pure chakra constructs..
And the normal Shadow Clone Technique combined Narutos chakra reserves is just too powerful. An army of clones who can train, spy, work, explore like the real one make it nearly impossible to not write a godlike Naruto.

 

Chakra constucts which are meant perfectly mimic the user's form; it's a clone technique, after all. I'm not seeing the problem with something that was established 10 years ago.

And you say it's nearly impossible not to make a godlike!Naruto fic despite there being many decent fics which manage it. The only fic I've ever read that does something like that is Indomitable.

 

I think limiting the shadow clone is a great idea since it allows for Naruto's style of fighting while balancing out his godmode powers. But when you bring in the weird stuff like remembering deaths and addiction it becomes the type of wangst that Howdy is afraid of.

Just say that he blacks out and doesnt gain any benefits if more than 10 clones disperse at once, and it takes like twenty minutes for his brain to assimilate the information, that time being multiplied for every clone. Also he can only create like 15 max clones, the graduation being an exception where he created like a hundred (which only lasted for a minute and still almost snapped his brain).

Doesn't that fix the shadow clone's balance issues while not being angsty? I would read that, but not one where he must ponder the mental price of using shadow clones for five chapters while he feels six mortal wounds.

 

If you think shadow clones too powerful you don't give it to Naruto. Changing it just so to balance is just stupid. There are other jutsu there can do the job no need to rehash the canon with extra angst.

Shadow clones is jonin level skill anyway.

 

I agree that there are other Justu that could become the focus of Naruto's fighting style and that its a Jonin level skill, though I'm not sure how the latter is significant.

But the shadow clone technique is really cool. I like how it works, and I think Naruto is very associated with the technique. Its pretty broken though, and from a story standpoint is capable of breaking most anything plot related. I think its good to want to keep cool things like this and balance them with story.

 

Okey let me clear my point.

Making it so if Naruto tries to learn more than one thing at the same time it becomes jumbled and useless. That is balancing. Naruto never going to learn everything in the library. I am ok with that.

Making it so every time a shadow clone pops Naruto goes in to a mini come. That is butchering the universe.

Also shadow clones being jonin level significant because jonin level jutsu has to be a little bit broken or broken jutsu becomes jonin level not sure which. I mean remember recent chapters of manga. Everybody haxing their way right now. A little bit clones will not broke the universe.

 

Aside from your weird English there, no-one said he goes into a mini-coma. I just said he can't make a thousand of them, which considering their relative intelligence and strength is fucking stupid if he used it right. Also 'butchering the universe'? I wasn't aware a minor technique limitation that really only applies to one character that even then doesn't apply in lots of situations in canon, since I cant rememmber the last time Naruto summoned 1000 clones outside fanfiction counts as butchering the universe.

Also, Jonin level means nothing. All the characters in the manga are above Jonin at their level, and even then I thought the technique was jonin level mainly because of the chakra drain rather than it's wtfhax abilities. Mainly because when Kishi thought of the technique, he didn't think of the possible ramifications as usual.

I actually think its more in line with canon to limit the technique since it's strength seems to be small numbers of clones as distractions and combatants. I think fanon often forgets that the more clones you have, the less effective they're meant to be and just makes armies of perfect clones for no reason.

 

This is all you need in order to understand that the Shadow Clone has limitations. Naruto has one brain. Going to the library and reading 100 books is not going to give him perfect retention. Try reading 100 books back to back and telling someone the details of each one. It's not happening.

Shadow Clones have never shown themselves to be particularly strong. In fact the few times that Naruto produces an absolute shitload, outside of the Mizuki incident, they're quickly and easily dispatched (Kimimaro, Gaara).

I think that the manga makes the Shadow Clones limitations blatantly clear, and underlines the technique's dangers. Just because Naruto doesn't run into the chakra-splitting issue often doesn't mean that it's a broken technique in his hands.

I would also argue that the manga implies that the copies are weaker than the original, at least in the physical respects, given how simply they are dispatched by Naruto's tougher opponents. No way is the original going to be so badly beaten in my opinion.

On the issue of canon's use of clones to train, I don't see a problem. Learning chakra manipulation like Naruto did is something that needs to be learned through repetition and experimentation. It's akin to muscle memory from my standpoint. What you don't see him doing is learning 1000 techniques in a weekend.

So frankly I don't see the problem.

This is just one of the stupid traps that authors fall into in Naruto fanfiction when they take a jutsu to an extreme and don't think about what limitations it could or should or even does have in the manga. The same is done with kawarimi and shunshin and henge.

It's the same damn thing.

 

It's only when you throw in things like Sage Chakra and Kyuubi Mode that the clones become something worthy of fear. As it is, they're just canon fodder that can allow Naruto to learn one thing relatively fast.

 

Plus going into sage mode did put a limit on how many clones he could maintain at once.

 

That limit's not really a big deal. Other than the war and the end of the Pain fight, Naruto hadn't used more than ten clones in a combat situation since the Kimimaro fight.

Having a couple of clones around for support is the best way to use the technique during a fight, otherwise the chakra is spread too 'thin'.

 

I thought it was actually just a limit on how many of his clones could reliably gather Nature chakra and send it to him without him going all froggy.