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Turkish Security Assault US Protestors

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xiph0, May 18, 2017.

  1. methor

    methor Fourth Year

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    What I want from a history education is two things; a familiarity with how different things were in other times and places, and an understanding of how things happen so that current tides of fashion make sense.

    So when I learn about atrocities committed against Native Americans, the lesson I get is how recognize when my society is committing similar atrocities and what I can do about it. When I learn about the women's suffrage movement I also learn about what it takes to organize a mass movement and what the knock on effects were.

    I don't quite see the necessity cultivating pride in a country, it is important that people try to keep the good and change the bad, but that seems more like hope than pride.
     
  2. Solfege

    Solfege High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    I had the privilege of what I now consider, in retrospect, a proper APUS class. We read Wood, Chase, McElvaine, McPherson, Toner, Hofstadter etc. Chapters from all the basic authors.

    We were taught to play "causal effect," not "the blame game." I still remember Dr. Clarke opening up the roundtable every day with the same question: "So boys, what did you think [of the reading?]" The paper questions, always: "To what extent..."

    It was as much historiography as history, and I prefer it that way.

    (Everyone else should too.)



    Lack of discussion over the Turkish incident is less a matter of national pride, more a matter of limited attention spans widely dispersed.

    I've always thought the same as Obama. Americans need to feel more resilient. Global citizen or no, the core of what it means to be American will stand the test of time, and I say this as a person of recent immigrant parentage. Or perhaps it's because of my roots that I have such fresh optimism.

    It's unnecessary that people apologize for their privilege. One should learn to act, and instead act more effectively (here lie useful history). I've heard of some awful apologies: "We are so sorry for the privileges that defined our success..." in which case, why the fuck are you on a panel of lessons for startup success, if your implication is one wholly of luck?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
  3. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    Yeah you can definitely take the relativism and focusing on the negative too far. While the Allies did some ugly things in World War II that shouldn't be ignored, the Axis were performing the some of most twisted and massive crimes against humanity in history.
     
  4. Agayek

    Agayek The Chosen One

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    I was talking more things like taking the good along with the bad. For a rather extreme example, take Germany. When discussing WWII, mention the Nazis and all that, and all that awful shit they did, but also discuss how the Third Reich also brought massively successful infrastructure, development, and employment to a country that desperately needed it.

    Or when talking about American history, talk about the various atrocities committed against the natives and all that, but don't skip over things like the technological advancement supported and brought by the US during the same period, etc.

    This isn't a "two sides of every coin" kind of thing and all, despite what it may sound like superficially, but more simply not fixating on the negatives. Highlight the good parts of history when it's there, the same as you do the bad parts when they're there.
     
  5. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    Get your own thread.
     
  6. Shouldabeenadog

    Shouldabeenadog High Inquisitor

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    So I got pissed enough to write my senator. We'll see what he says.
     
  7. awinarock

    awinarock Alchemist

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    Probably a very flowery version of "lol, good luck."
     
  8. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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  9. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    Fuck if Erdogan salt isn't delicious.

    In the lack of Trump or Tillerson not doing anything, at least this salt meal is something.

    Source:https://news.vice.com/story/erdogan-is-mad-his-guards-face-arrest-for-attacking-protesters-in-d-c
     
  10. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Erdogan is predictably sour about the US putting out arrest warrants for his stooges, and, to no one's surprise, he says that his 'security detail', if you can call them that, were "protecting me [Erdogan] from terrorists." LINK

    This came up a bit in the other thread about the exact definition of terrorism, but I think we in the West need to push back on tin-pot dictators bleating 'terrorists!' about everyone who just happens to be their political opposition. It's an excuse, plain and simple.
     
  11. blob

    blob Fourth Year

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    It's hardly only Erdogan and his ilk; terrorism is an excuse to push a whole range of agendas that the people would normally reject. Hell, you could see a 'lite' version with it in UK. Corbyn has/had a bit too positive views on IRA, but the media painted him as if he was bombing London himself.

    At this point if I hear 'stopping terrorism' as an argument to pretty much... anything, I'm likely to become the opposite of convinced of whatever the guy is pushing.
     
  12. tikkier2000

    tikkier2000 First Year

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    Unfortunately it's so easy to persuade people with cries of terrorism. The United States still hasn't managed to find it's stride in a multipolar world. From the end of WW2 to the fall of the Soviet Union, two superpowers existed and everyone else had to jive to one of our tunes. But things have been shifting in the last couple decades, and America just hasn't figured out where to settle.

    Partly because the country is so astoundingly divisive, but also because the majority of our history has been spent in isolation. We kept to ourselves and only entered the global stage kicking and screaming. It wasn't until shit hit our own fan that we decided enough was enough. Which probably caused a lot more casualties than there would've been had we pulled off the blinders.

    This incident with Turkey is just another recent example of how America is having a hard time adjusting to what kind of power we enforce and what kind of respect we demand throughout the world. Our economy definitely isn't the best, our people aren't the most unified, and our faith in ourselves is at an all time low. We have the most powerful military, but no one wants to start WW3. It's not to be used lightly.

    What really pisses me off about this whole incident is that it can fly under the radar like it isn't an egregious breech of international trust and abuse of diplomatic immunity, yet we can spend literal hours repeating the same facts of the Russian investigation. Which, by the way, is like two snippets because nothing's been released.

    Our priorities are so jacked it isn't funny.