Turncoat - Discussion Thread [Epic Spoilers]

Discussion in 'The Dresden Files' started by Jon, Apr 7, 2009.

  1. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    DEMONREACH!

    It was PEABODY! By the ISLAND!

    With MADELINE and BINDER!

    Who Is pretty cool.

    Madeline, word, just word.

    Lara is such an awesome bitch.

    So much to gush about so little time.
     
  2. Vesvius

    Vesvius High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    Alright, some thoughts.

    Turn Coat was much, much more awesome then I thought it would be. I didn't have high hopes after the sample chapters, but it turned into one of the better books in the series.

    Though Peabody? With mind control ink? Seems weak to me, even with the small amount of foreshadowing that Butcher used early on in the book (Peabody getting Eb to sign some stuff). It would have been better if it was revealed in a way other then "YOU DID IT WITH THE INKWELL!".

    Morgan was suitably epic.

    I'm dissapointed about Luccio, but not really sad. We've known her since Dead Beat, but she was only really a major character in Small Favor, if that. Maybe Harry will eventually get a non vampire, non mindwarped girl. Sadly it looks like it'll be Molly or Murphy. Probably Murphy. Though for some reason I keep thinking Harry/Ivy would be epic.

    Demonreach was pretty cool, and I can't wait for more to come with it.

    Out of all the people intro'd in this book, it seems like the Lawyer and the P.I. will be sticking around for a while. Harry never really gazes someone who's not important and the P.I. has a main character vibe.

    Now one of the major questions this book left for me. With Thomas gone off the deep end and Morgan dead, who wields the swords? Thomas will probably get the love one (can't spell it off the top of my head) in a book or two, but the faith one is still up for grabs.

    Another one is what will happen with Harry and Lara? She knows he's not protected now and seems intrested in riding him like a pony.

    Oh, and last thing. Grey Council? Honestly?
     
  3. Last 50 pages just disappointed me, wasn't as epic as i'd hoped.

    So that's it, Thomas just got tortured into insanity and now he's Angel off his meds and pigs blood. sad.

    Also, skinwalker not getting killed with fire, major FAIL.

    Soulfire is bullshit, did not accomplish anything in the book "the silver white streamers of soul fire danced and glittered around my right hand" suck my soulfire enhanced cock.

    body of book 5/5

    everything after chapter 48 is fail
     
  4. Samuel Black

    Samuel Black Minister of Magic

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    Holy fucking shit.

    Had to get that off my chest. Book was epic. Few things.

    The Skinwalker. Fucking hell. I was hoping Butcher would exceed my expectations, and he did. It was ridiculously strong, and I found the backstory behind it and it's kind relatively interesting. It's still alive, so maybe we'll see a round two in a few books?

    The Senior Council, or more specifically Injun-Joe and the Merlin. It was great to see one of the senior council finally cut loose. It's one thing to hear about how powerful and epic they are in a fight, and it's another to actually see it.

    I've always liked the Merlin, surprisingly, and it was pretty cool to see some interaction between him and Dresden.

    I'm disappointed about what happened to Thomas, but it's understandable. Hopefully, he gets his shit together soon and starts helping Harry again.

    I really expected someone to pick up a sword in this book. Sanya has got to be getting overworked as the only Knight. I'm gonna go ahead and say that someone will be getting a sword in the next book.

    I liked Murphy a helluva lot more in this book then I did in the last one.

    Morgan was all kinds of epic, which was awesome. Sucks, since the Council lost a major hitter, but it was kind of inevitable.

    Demonreach was interesting.

    Soul fire kind of disappointed me, as did the lack of Lash, but I wasn't surprised. Last time Harry did a major working with soulfire, he lost the use of his hand for a while. It was pretty cool seeing him work smaller, more controlled spells with it, though.

    I'm gonna go ahead and give this a 4/5. It was great, but not perfect. The pacing started out quick, and it maintained it's speed throughout the whole book. Great book.

    I loved the exchanges between Morgan and Harry, particularly the one where Morgan tells Harry how he killed a skinwalker. With a nuke.

    All kinds of awesome.
     
  5. kmfrank

    kmfrank Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    Yeah, epic book is fucking epic.

    I agree that soulfire could potentially be cool later; it was kinda lackluster here, as it was exhausted in the cockfight with Demonreach. I think Demonreach is going to be hella important for the rest of the series. Like when Harry holes up there forever or something.

    Learned some great shit about magic in this book - I need to revise my own Dresden fic Winter Wizard, incorporating some of the stuff about the Ways, though I think it can still be salvaged pretty well.

    Skinwalker was good, I thought - I had expected shittiness from the preview chapter, but was pleasantly surprised.

    I'm smelling Thomas angst, though...its approaching like someone who stepped in shit. I don't think it'll be terrible. Angsty!Vampire sells, after all, so I guess I can't expect a total absence of it...

    Injun Joe was a total badass - I knew shapeshifting had awesome possibilities and I'd introduced it in my own fic, again, but it definitely has me excited.

    McCoy and the rest of the council really let loose some EPIC fucking magic, and made it clear why Harry's an infant playing in the Major Leagues, when it comes to them.

    Also, the Edinburgh hidey-hole was pretty sweet.



    Harry/Luccio is dead...

    <.<

    >.>

    Long live HARRY/MOLLY!!!
     
  6. uriel

    uriel Seventh Year DLP Supporter

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    I honestly couldn't tell if Butcher was setting up Dresden to NEVER be with Molly, or creating a situation so there COULD be something with Molly in the future.

    I mean he like talked about her perfect breasts, protruding nipples, and taut ass for about 50 pages in that one scene with the investigator.

    Then there's Murphy.. thought there would be some kind of hooking up at the end there, but it never happened.
     
  7. Ragon

    Ragon Dark Lord

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    HOLY FUCK!!! havent finished it but so far its fuckin awesome.

    I will bet money that Dresden was born on Demonreach. The way Gatekeeper was acting and talking about it just screams something important about Harry and Demonreach. The ley line would be would possible explaination for why Harry is so fuckin strong too.
     
  8. Cruentus

    Cruentus Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    Soul Fire is more of an enhancer then sheer power, in fact that's why I like it over Hellfire, It stated in the book in fact that Harry wouldn't have even tried to bond with the island if he hadn't had it.

    Hellfire is interesting, but there just seems to be so much more you can do with Soul Fire.

    This book was all about the set up, which means the next book is probably going to be fucking epic, and we all know that when Lash comes back it'll be Harry duel wielding Soul/Hell fire.

    On an interesting note there was more sexual situations in this book then in all the others.
     
  9. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Pretty good read. Lots of answers, lots of new questions. Didn't like the Skinwalker. Yes, Butcher beefed it up, power wise, but all the way through the book I had this feeling that it was kinda artificial: it had no right being so powerful, it should have been weaker.

    Don't know why that is. Maybe because I have no interest in Native American mythology, maybe because I feel like most of the power players have been already established and you can't just keep adding new ones ad hoc.

    Anyway, let's see if we can keep track of all the questions/plot threads we have running.

    What is the composition and aims of the Black Council?

    Why/how can Harry hurt Outsiders? What is special about Harry?

    What's special about Demonreach?

    What's wrong with Mab?

    What happened to Lash?

    White Council/Red Court war.

    Thomas.

    Who gets the swords?

    When will we see Molly naked again?

    Harry's possible apprenticeship to Injun Joe.

    Harry's mother and what she was up to.

    Who is the other traitor that was at Demonreach?

    When is Susan going to return, if ever?

    What's heaven's interest in Harry?

    Creation and running of the Grey council.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
  10. Koalas

    Koalas The Chosen One DLP Supporter

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    Anarchy, new world order, social Darwinism etc. I truly hope I'm wrong and Butcher pulls out something epic but I'll probably be quoting this in a couple of years.

    Going with Demonreach's true purpose and Harry 'taking up that mantle' I'd say these two are related. Might be how the Gatekeeper got his gatekeeping powers. Ripping them form Demonwatch.

    We get a better exploration of his character then the 'Just say no to drugs' vibe he's been giving. I'm happy about it.

    Soon.

    Should be epic. Though more survivor's guilt seminars then magic lessons.

    Fucking Xanatos.

    Cowl/Crazy!Merlin/DemonPossesed!Merlin/Simon

    Next book I believe.

    Preventing the Black Concil's coming apocolypse.

    Small club I'd imagine. Mainly focused on following the leads made by Madaline's cellphone and eroding the new Senrio Council member's power base.
     
  11. kmfrank

    kmfrank Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    Between the 'taking up the mantle' and the 'you might have a chance to write in these books some time, boy'...

    Was I the only one who thought McCoy was culling Harry to be the next Blackstaff?

    Kinda seemed to me what the books would be about - every Blackstaff passes the collection down.

    Just my idea.
     
  12. Ragon

    Ragon Dark Lord

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    "If he'd been accused of lopping off the heads of baby bunny rabbits because someone accused them of being warlocks, I could buy that."

    Funniest line I have read in a long time. I busted out laughing and still laugh when I think about it.
     
  13. Samuel Black

    Samuel Black Minister of Magic

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    I'm kind of disappointed with that whole Grey council thing. At first, I thought it said that the Merlin had told Ebenezer to form it. Couple that with Eb's line about 'If we're brought into the open, the White Council will execute us', and I pictured a mini-army of wizards authorized to do whatever they hell they needed to. With the Blackstaff at the head, who knows? Violating the laws of magic was a certainty, I thought.

    Turns out I just misread a line from Harry when he said something to the effects of 'the merlin's denial of the black council necessitates our creation'.

    Dammit.
     
  14. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    The Dresden Files = Blackstaff Harry Dresden's journals?

    That said, I'm not sure that Harry is quite the right person to be Blackstaff. To be Blackstaff you have to be able to break the laws of magic (i.e. use black magic) without falling to it.

    Harry would struggle with that, IMO.

    Edit: Also Demonreach = hellmouth?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
  15. Ragon

    Ragon Dark Lord

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    @Taure:

    I wouldnt be suprised if McCoy learned the lessons that he taught Harry the hard way, just like Harry did. Like Uriel told Harry "The burned hand teachs best."

    Finally finished it and have to say it is without doubt the best of Butcher's work. While soul fire disappoints a bit, it is still early for Harry to have really learned how to use it all that well. We also finally got to see the Senior Council in action and they did not disappoint.
     
  16. Cruentus

    Cruentus Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    I don't see why a bunch of you want to see Harry cut lose with dark magic...I mean you do realize that doing so would completely erase a core part of Harry's character, and thus he would no longer be Harry.

    You also have to realize that Harry's over all mission is to prevent mankind from being over run by evil and darkness...it kinda defeats the purpose if he started using the stuff he's trying to stop, kinda like the Thousand Sons space marine legion practicing magic even though they know all magic flows from the bad guy.
     
  17. Ragon

    Ragon Dark Lord

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    Who is saying they want him to use dark magic?
     
  18. JohnThePyro

    JohnThePyro Headmaster

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    Didn't read resulting replies to this, so I may just be repeating what someone else said. If so-My bad.

    Anyway, Reading what Eb had to say, I think it's quite possible that Eb is the leader of the Black Council. Read how he talks, and look at how Harry has always acted. "A moment of slipping can cause your fall" ect ect. What's a bigger slip than going from White to Grey?

    It sounds to me that Eb is creating a possible "transitional period" for Harry to get used to working outside the strict laws of the White Council. Then slowly moving him to work in the Black Councils interests. It's obvious that Harry is a key player, he may be required for whatever the Black Council wants to do.


    That said-Demonreach was undoubtably the best part of the book for me. Harry gains a new power, a possible safe base of operations, and it opens up a whole new large question. Absolutely fucking epic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
  19. Ragon

    Ragon Dark Lord

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    If Eb leads the Black Council then the White Council is totally fucked.
     
  20. White Rabbit

    White Rabbit Hippity Hoppity DLP Supporter

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    Lol

    I kind of want to see Harry move out to the island and create his own little fortress of Solitude. A place to recoup and head back out.

    I expected Demonreach to do something other than give Harry 'Intellectus'. Like uppercut something/someone while rising out of the ground.

    Cristo's = Cowl?