Word of God Thread.

LittleChicago · Dec 4, 2010

Well, son of a bitch. Good catch. Interesting morsels to chew on in there.

Seratin · Dec 4, 2010

This is only making me want the new book harder.

Harder enough to do unspeakable things to it when it surfaces.

Ryuugi Shi · Dec 4, 2010

About that:

Jim: He is wyldfae. He isn't a subject of Mab or Titania. That's what Wyldfae means. But his origins are in the Summer-side of the cycle of seasons, just like Titania's are.
Ditto Santa, only in Winter.
(He /is/ beholden to Mother Summer, but basically everyone in Faerie is, so.)
(I mean, that's like saying "you must obey the law of gravity." Duh.)

Me: You mean the Erlking has not learned to throw himself at the ground and miss?

Jim: Something like that, yes.
If Grandma says "Dearie, I'd really like you to do this for me," you just DO it. Or granny's roommate might pick up her shears.
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This was a conversation between Jim and one of his betas; you can find it in the thread linked.

Aekiel · Dec 5, 2010

Ah, sweet, so it's more of an informal arrangement then.

Ryuugi Shi · Dec 5, 2010

And now with videos!

Dragon*Con 2010

Video 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxM6fMxNLbw

2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwntUFzPW_U&feature=related

3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_CEAHF6a-Q&feature=related

4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmlxwr29UmY&feature=related

5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfG2ZIdYdr4&feature=related

6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atQi6Qez3y8&feature=related

Sauce Bauss · Dec 15, 2010

Aekiel said: ↑

Butcher himself stated that Erl is the King of Summer (and a parallel to Santa Clause, if the Kings' Courts mirror the Queens')
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While watching the videos, I noticed something about how he phrased his statements about the Kings. He says

Butcher said:

Another one is Santa Claus. Yeah, well, I mean he's not like the commercial Santa Claus, but he is a Winter King who is sort of, the Kings kind of tend to be sort of the opposite of the Queens in their given season. So, the Erlking is actually, he is a Summer King, even though he's independent of Titania's court.
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Emphasis mine.

That and a few other comments seem to confirm that there are multiple Kings for each court, similar to how there are three Queens for each season.

I was also surprised by the comment about the Wyldfae. It seems like there are no Fae who are unaffiliated with either season. Wyldfae only refers to those not under the rule of the Queens, but they are all beholden to one season or the other. Before, it seemed like there were fae who were neutral, even if they chose one side or another during major conflicts.

Aekiel · Dec 15, 2010

Could be that since the last major conflict in Summer Knight most of the Wyldfae have permanently chosen their sides?

Tehan · Dec 15, 2010

Nothing to back this up, but I've got an inkling that Wyldfae are sorta like military reservists - come the big wars, they've already chosen their side and know where they'll be fighting, but up until then they just putter about doing their own thing.

Jon · Dec 15, 2010

..Damn, I would have bet that Goblins were Winterside.

Summer, really?

Word.

Khazad-Dumb · Dec 15, 2010

Jon said: ↑

..Damn, I would have bet that Goblins were Winterside.

Summer, really?

Word.
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Elves and Goblins, mate. Never on the same side. And since Santa Claus can't really be a Summer Fae, it stands to reason that goblins would be.

Ryuugi Shi · Dec 18, 2010

General Custer said: ↑

Elves and Goblins, mate. Never on the same side. And since Santa Claus can't really be a Summer Fae, it stands to reason that goblins would be.
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Small problem, Summer used elves in Small Favor.

Sol · Dec 23, 2010

I think you mean Summer Knight.

Random Shinobi · Dec 23, 2010

Considering that Titania is canon, it would make sense for Oberon to be too. And he's supposed to be the King of Elves.

Vesvius · Dec 23, 2010

Sol said: ↑

I think you mean Summer Knight.
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Nah, I think he means Small Favor. When Thomas plays decoy, he gets shot at by Elves.

Ryuugi Shi · Jun 9, 2011

And that's really the issue for using the Ways, isn't it? You don't ever know what's on the other side until somebody actually goes through it.

That's the reason wizards mostly stick to established, known, "safe" passages. No one wants to be the first guy into uncharted territory, especially since that uncharted territory could prove to be an environment of, for example, all molten lava. No one wants to be the one that finds out that the portion of Earth that this side of the Nevernever hooks up to is at the bottom of the Laurentian Abyss. Especially when "finding out" means being exposed to it first hand, without any warning.

I mean, there's more than one reason Maggie the elder got dubbed "LeFay." Sure, it was because she was on good terms with the faeries, and sure it was because she could travel all over the world in very brief amounts of time the way some of the fae can. But remember that "fay" or "fey" is also an old word for "crazy."

She was the one who was insane enough to go /exploring/ in the /Nevernever/.

The observation that her jewel is basically a notebook is bang on. It's nothing but knowledge.

I mean, come on. How powerful could THAT possibly be?
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Giving this book two stars for one simple reason. And there will be SPOILERS.....

Unlike others who have a problem with this book, I don't mind Dresden selling his soul (I think a five minute death is going to give him an out), I don't mind him cajoling Susan to go all dark side, she chose after all, just like he did. Here's where I have the problem and what reduces the book to a one star, for me, though I gave it two to be kind.

YEARS of long, drawn out, teeth grindingly boring sexual tension between Dresden and Murphy (and frankly I am really sick of writers and this plot tactic..if you can't make characters in a relationship exciting, don't introduce the possibility, drawing out sexual tension for ten years is just annoying)....anyhoo...so okay, YEARS of drawn out sexual tension and this happens:

Gee Harry why yes, let's finally succumb to this simmering seething tension lurking just below the surface and yes even though I know the wicked fairy queen is liable to show up at any moment and claim your soul causing yet another chance of knocking-boots-bliss to slip through my fingers but rather than just finally hopping on and seeing what your blasting rod is really capable of, I'll just go drive across town first and take a SHOWER?!!!! Hello what the frak, there's a shower on the boat take one together!

Contrived and stupid.
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You ever seen the shower on a small vessel like the Water Beetle? It isn't the sort of place you bring company. Dresden practically has to do yoga just to fit inside.
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It's not a surprise that Harry Dresden has been leaning towards The Dark Side. Jim Butcher has done a masterful job through book after book of setting this up. We've all been wondering what, exactly, would cause Harry to do The Bad Thing, who in Harry's life would cause him to make that choice, but when it finally came to Harry making the choices and doing the deeds that cracked his moral compass and obliterated the line between right and wrong, Butcher absolutely punked out by giving Harry a scapegoat in which to do so - he did it for his kid. Aw, see now it makes it okay.

This entire book was one long rambling mess. Anyone and everyone that's been in the series was in it, whether they should have been or not. Everything popped up, whether it made sense or not. Side tangents went nowhere. Open plots from past books remained gaping while brand new ones left me thinking, "Wait, what?" more than once. Harry can still call Lasciel's coin to him whenever he wants? Really? Because....?

I at least now understand why Butcher so coldly and abruptly dismissed the character of Michael. Michael's involvement with this book and with Harry's actions would have proved a significant challenge to write. It's the only reasoning I can come up with as to why he would only devote a total of about six lines to a major character's near death and subsequent vanishing act. Michael's better off not being a part of this mess.

I could have forgiven 90% of the book for the absolutely epic battle at the end if Butcher hadn't then ruined that with the Murphy/Dresden scene at the end. Why is he still flogging that dead horse when both of the characters had moved on from this crap in earlier books?

As for who is responsible for what happened in the last seconds of the book? There's a line forming to the left.
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"We've all been wondering what, exactly, would cause Harry to do The Bad Thing, who in Harry's life would cause him to make that choice, but when it finally came to Harry making the choices and doing the deeds that cracked his moral compass and obliterated the line between right and wrong, Butcher absolutely punked out by giving Harry a scapegoat in which to do so - he did it for his kid. Aw, see now it makes it okay. "

Um, no, not at all. That does not make Harry's choice "okay." Not even a little.

In my opinion, it does make it kinda understandable, though. I know of few people, be they ever so moral, who would be content to watch their innocent child die for the sake of said morals when they could do something about it.

But please bear in mind: Harry's not a paragon or a saint. He's just as lost and clueless as all the rest of us.

Regular, decent people can do some really terrible things. They can be pushed to that point by all kinds of circumstances, but they can get there--particularly when the only choices they're given are between what's wrong and what's unthinkable. They can follow leaders who march them all into darkness. They can be caught in the tides of history, politics, and ideology. Just people. Me. You. We can make bad choices. We can do all the wrong things for all the right reasons, and despite a few millennia of history, culture, philosophy and theology, people can still make those same mistakes.

Mab was the one who encapsulated it, in dialogue, when she spoke about love being the driving power behind all kinds of terrible acts. (It's not love, really: it's fear of losing someone you love. But that's a whole other topic.)

When we make those bad choices, horrible consequences ensue. People suffer. Sometimes people die. I'm writing fiction, but those pressures and choices are very, very real. And they can fall on anyone out of nowhere.

"Open plots from past books remained gaping while brand new ones left me thinking, "Wait, what?" more than once. Harry can still call Lasciel's coin to him whenever he wants? Really? Because....?"

Some plots are still open because, you know. The story isn't done yet. And Harry knows it's possible for the coin to be summoned because Lash told him it was doable. As far as him being able to summon the coin, well. He kinda lied to Mab. It'll be clearer why he did, eventually.

"I at least now understand why Butcher so coldly and abruptly dismissed the character of Michael."

Not at all. A lot of people have mentioned this to me, and none of them had read the story that resolved it. Writing the followup Michael needed couldn't have happened at the end of Small Favor. It required a certain amount of time to go by, within the story world. The resolution of Michael's injury was the core of the short story, "The Warrior." It's included in the upcoming collection of Dresden Files short pieces, called SIDE JOBS.

"I could have forgiven 90% of the book for the absolutely epic battle at the end if Butcher hadn't then ruined that with the Murphy/Dresden scene at the end."

Folks who have been in scary situations where their lives are endangered have a pretty wide spectrum of reactions. But one of the most common reactions is a need for the reaffirmation of being alive. One of the most common acts to embody that need is, well, sex. What was going on between Harry and Murphy wasn't necessarily about their feelings for one another as much as it was about the physical and psychological trauma of the big epic battle you mentioned. That kind of event can temporarily tint the powerful (though not necessarily romantic) feelings a man and woman share for one another.

I mean, it might have been simple adrenaline. Also, some of the basis for that scene sprang from the events of the short story, "Love Hurts," which will also be in SIDE JOBS.

All that said... Not everything about the events of Changes has been shown, yet, and there are a lot of elements in it which are deliberately misleading within the context of that story taken on its own.

Some things take time to build and reveal. To the best of my ability, in the Dresden Files, no one skates cleanly out of the consequences of their own choices.

You've stuck with me for a dozen novels, it would seem. Gimme a little credit. And have a little faith.

Jim
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"Killing her at that point wasn't the hard decision at that point, it was just damn... damn... DAMN cold."

"A far more proper way to look at this is Martin did this to both Harry and Susan."

"On another note did you notice how at the very, very beginning he was calling her Murph. Then as soon as she said she had his back for his child he always called her Karrin from then on?"

God I love an observant reader.
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"Here's a small comment. I don't know if someone else made this observation and I just missed it, but, did anyone else note that the costume that Lea gave Susan was sacrificial robe to Harry's conquistador? "

GOD I LOVE AN OBSERVANT READER!
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"What the end of Empty Night will bring... only Butcher knows."

No he doesn't.

I never planned out Dresden's love life. I wanted it to be something that grew up free range style. No clue what's gonna happen there, yet. Just following my instincts.
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"Wondering if this will ever show up as a dangling thread: The backstory on McAnally. Since his pub is a place where no harm can come of others, what in his past led to this being able to happen?"

Well, the pub's been declared neutral territory, at any rate. That's a long way from having a place where no one CAN get hurt. It's just a place where no one is SUPPOSED to get hurt. There's no bippity boppity boo enforcing it. It's just an agreed-upon neutral venue, and pretty much every major city has at least one, so that the possibility for non-violent conflict resolution is always there.

As the watering hole for the local supernatural community, Mac's place was already a familiar location. When the war broke out, with a member of the White Council in residence in the area (specifically, the dummy who managed to START the war), it was a logical choice.

And besides. He makes REALLY good beer.
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Lots of goodies for y'all this time and I'll be back with more later.

---------- Post automerged 06-09-2011 at 03:37 AM ---------- Previous post was 06-08-2011 at 11:16 PM ----------

And here's Part Two:

I am very unhappy with the note this text is taking. I understand that Butcher is diversifying the way in which he tell stories and this could be an excellent tale, but I just don't like the premise. Even if harry does come back does he loose all the power he held previously i.e. innate power, soul fire, demon reach, and winter knight? This frustrates me as a reader. I thought that Changes was the best book in the series next to Summer Knight. I feel like this next book is just going to be a let down.

I don't like that it will be taking a note from the Buffy universe ie lets see how many times we can kill of the hero for shock value. Be Butcher don't be Joss W.
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Dear Dr. Rutledge,

Trust me.

Jim
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Anyone else wondering why Harry's wearing his duster on the cover, if it was destroyed at the end of Changes?
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Anybody else notice that the duster "died" when Susan did? Interesting, inasmuch as she gave it to him.
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I love it when readers notice the little things.
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Are my eyes deceiving me? Has the release date for Ghost Story changed from April 5th to July 26, 2011? I sure hope not as I have been patiently waiting since Changes for this book to come out! What's the deal??? Who's heads need to roll???
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Primarily mine, though... now that I think of it, that might make the book even more late.

Jim
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Portus · Jun 9, 2011

One of the things I like best about TDF is that we have no frickin' clue what Butcher is going to spring on us next. Who, when they first read Storm Front, would have ever guessed we'd have:
- The Fallen, and Lash in particular
- Odin and Valkyries
- many variations of vampires
- a vampire-succubus half-brother
- a war with one type of vampire, and Dresden *wiping them out*
- the Black Staff and it being his grandfather, who happens to be Eb
- Sue, the necro!T-Rex (my favorite thing in all the books)
- Soulfire
- Shagnasty
- three Holy swords, two of which come into Dresden's possession
- about a dozen other things I'm forgetting at the moment...

The scope and Butcher's always-improving talents are what makes me so glad I stumbled upon DLP, which in turn led me to TDF.

Oh, and the fact there are 10+ books still to be enjoyed certainly doesn't hurt.

Scrib · Jun 9, 2011

Portus said: ↑

One of the things I like best about TDF is that we have no frickin' clue what Butcher is going to spring on us next. Who, when they first read Storm Front, would have ever guessed we'd have:
- The Fallen, and Lash in particular
- Odin and Valkyries
- many variations of vampires
- a vampire-succubus half-brother
- a war with one type of vampire, and Dresden *wiping them out*
- the Black Staff and it being his grandfather, who happens to be Eb
- Sue, the necro!T-Rex (my favorite thing in all the books)
- Soulfire
- Shagnasty
- three Holy swords, two of which come into Dresden's possession
- about a dozen other things I'm forgetting at the moment...

The scope and Butcher's always-improving talents are what makes me so glad I stumbled upon DLP, which in turn led me to TDF.

Oh, and the fact there are 10+ books still to be enjoyed certainly doesn't hurt.
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And this pretty much fucks both fanfic writers and people trying to guess at the cliffhanger at the end of Changes. But as long as Jim Butcher keeps pumping out book after book and doesn't go Rothfuss on us I don't mind .

Wow, I didn't realise that so many people hated the Murphy/Harry scene at the end.

Tehan · Jun 10, 2011

Butcher's been cockteasing us with everyone's favourite tiny blonde cop for thirteen books now, and then he goes and pulls that. Some people just can't take it any more.

And then there's the crowd that thinks OMG SEX SHOULD BE MAGICAL AND NEVER JUST A COPING MECHANISM FOR PEOPLE SUFFERING FROM PTSD, but they're a whole other brand of crazy.

ItsAProcess · Jun 10, 2011

Tehan said: ↑

Butcher's been cockteasing us with everyone's favourite tiny blonde cop for thirteen books now, and then he goes and pulls that. Some people just can't take it any more.
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My money is on one of two happenstances.

A. At least five more books before we see any sort of real progress between Murph/Harry.

B. She'll jump him as soon as he's back amongst the living and they're relatively alone/have the time.

Knowing Butcher and his habits with Murphy I'm betting the first.

The Fine Balance · Jun 10, 2011

Why the 5, ItsAProcess?

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Hi there, Guest

Word of God Thread.

LittleChicago Headmaster DLP Supporter

Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

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Scrib The Chosen One

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