World Politics thread

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Erotic Adventures of S, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    I suspect at this point, "the man on the street" is an ideologue on one or the other side. The separatistas did their best best to provoke Rajoy to respond to that effect, and he was glad to oblige. And if he continues that way, his elections, if they happen, will re-create the majorities as we see them currently, and everyone is as wise as before.

    I wonder how long it takes for someone in a position to do something about it to get the idea to solve a political problems with politics. Outlandish proposal, I know.
     
  2. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    To be fair to the Catalonian Government, they didn't have many other viable options than running with the referendum result. I think everyone would've massively preferred a peaceful, orderly, and properly democratic referendum, but that wasn't what happened, and doesn't seem to be on the table. In hindsight, Rajoy really should've taken inspiration from how Canada handled the Quebec referendums: let the people vote even if it's an illegal and meaningless vote. Once he sent in the police to beat up voters, that became a far bigger issue than a vote with pretty much no real legitimacy.

    It's not surprising the Catalonian government opted for independence when Rajoy's government was publicly discussing plans to dissolve their government and prosecute their leaders.
     
  3. Nazgus

    Nazgus Death Eater

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    I'm really not following your argument. You're saying it's not surprising they decided to commit a crime when the government was discussing what the punishment for committing it would be?

    I'm not saying sending in the police was the best decision, but the Catalonian government gets no sympathy from me.
     
  4. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    That was the option they would only follow if Catalonia declared independence. And Rajoy doesn't want to deal with multiple votes, like Quebec and maybe Scotland with how things are going, and create a huge instability on its richest province every other decade, specially on a much more fragile economy than Canada or the UK.
     
  5. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Tactical Tomato DLP Supporter

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    Australia's Deputy Prime Minister, Barnaby Joyce, has recently been kicked out government because it turns out he's half Kiwi. Six other politicians have been similarly affected. What makes Joyce's removal more interesting is that the govt only had a one seat majority, which is gone now, meaning they'll have to make an alliance with one of the independent senators, who can be...a mixed bunch. The opposition is considering challenging a number of bills that passed by only one vote (Joyce's) because in hindsight, he shouldn't have been there to vote at all.

    What really gets my goat is that Joyce said he 'knew' that something like this would end up happening (when all the furor over mixed citizenship started) but continued to bloody vote. One of the votes that won by a single vote was a controversial measure to slash penalty rates in hospitality, retail, and fast food.
     
  6. Erotic Adventures of S

    Erotic Adventures of S Denarii Host

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    Had this effected one party more than others? Or is it split?
     
  7. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Tactical Tomato DLP Supporter

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    Somewhat split. The Greens lost two senior members, but it has hit the Government more than Opposition mainly because the Govt only had a one member majority.
     
  8. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Yes. Because by that point, the only logic in the process that was left was the one of pushing the other side to do the most extreme step possible, in order to shore up support for the own position.

    What you need is context. This didn't start yesterday or last week, but years ago, and years ago, Rajoy should have solved the issue, because keeping the country together is his job. Regardless of what you think of Catalonia, if you run a country and manage to alienate a fuckton of people in one of your provinces to the degree that they declare independence from you, you may officially apply for the Frederick "Oops I lost your colonies" North award for incompetence.

    In the last stages, the independence movement wasn't so much advocating for independence as against dependence on Rajoy. He was the one who nixed the already finished treaty that was supposed to restructure the position of Catalonia within Spain because he didn't like it. He was the one getting those court rulings in his favour. And then he decided that would mean the problem is solved, because hurr-durr my own courts tell me I'm right. Every tried telling a mass of discontented people it's fine they're unhappy, because that's legal?

    Really, I'm all for ignoring idiotic fringe minorities and just running them over with the legal bus. But as it turns out (and as everyone could see, given the majorities in the Catalan parliament) it wasn't a "fringe minority", and that makes the party that refused to engage them idiotic. For fuck's sake, it's not like this is magic. Spain had a terrorist insurgence in Basque Country for decades -- and solved it. This was entirely solvable as well :|
     
  9. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    I mean. He had plenty of dick moves and I don't disagree. But the Catalonian leadership were a bunch of opportunists shits, who jammed their agenda down the rest of voters throats by taking advantage of local anger. The Cat. Government had and have no plan, no support and no idea what they're doing. Blaming Rajoy solely for what's happening is saying that Obama is to blame for what's Trump doing.

    And last time I checked Sesc, Spain was a fully Democratic country with rule of law, indepdent courts and an actual Judiciary branch and not an extension of the Legislative.
     
  10. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    And the majority of Catalonia disagrees -- now. Even those who are opposed to independence. That's the end result. As it turns out, running a country also involves dealing with opportunists shits in regional parliaments. How to do that for maximum inefficiency: Exhibit A, Spain.

    It's a clear case of 'the buck stops here'. And 'here' is the acting PM of Spain, because he's the goddamn PM of Spain. If he thinks that's unfair: It just takes three words to resign.
     
  11. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    If Rajoy's goal was to avoid causing instability, I think we can safely say he screwed the pooch on that one.
     
  12. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    Oh he did. Rajoy is a shit PM. No one can contests that.
     
  13. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    So, Beata Szydło is out as PM of Poland and Mateusz Morawiecki is in.

    I can't yet tell if I'm going to enjoy or detest Christmas when one of my cousins or uncles says something and I will be ineavitably unable to hold back commenting how I told them Szydło and Duda were Kaczyński's pawns and nothing more.

    Szydło's replacement used to work for Tusk, Kaczyński's chosen nemesis. Is this a ploy to allow Kaczyński to step in in the future under the guise of "you want something done well, do it yourself"? Morawiecki is "tainted" by his past in Tusk's administration (from the PiS POV), he's just another figurehead for Kaczyński to guide from the comfort of a parliamentary seat.
     
  14. Invictus

    Invictus Prisoner

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    So. Romania is at it again. After passing a reform that more or less is a lite version of the Polish reform that got thru a warning, they're now trying to legalize corruption (well, practically that), again.

    This does denote imo the feeble amount of power the EU has over some of it's members, and how big of a mistake not having an internal system of punishment was. Romania basically said fuck you EU, and is going through Polish/Hungary route. Double painful since if Poland was the poster boy for the integration of Eastern Europe in the EU, Romania was the poster boy for the life quality improvement it brings.