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Old 03-19-2017, 11:36 AM   #2261
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It's more the decision to make Jiraiya Sakura's mentor. It feels wrong for her to be learning the rasengan and I presume eventually toad summoning. The lack of contact with Naruto despite presumable still being his godfather is weird. Sasuke has his clan and people like Shisui to get personal attention off of. Naruto has no one, his saving grace is the weird eldritch Kyuubi.
I think that change was cool enough, plus Gallyrat's a good writer - I trust that he will give Naruto the sort of mentorship and development he will need eventually. That, plus the Kyuubi seems more God than man here - that small fraction of a fraction of its power that we saw in that hospital scene (reality warping, time reversal, teleportation) was not just terrifying in itself but also by far the most powerful thing we've seen in the series. In fact, given portrayals thus far, I'll bet that only Nagato, on account of having God's Own Eyes, will really be a match for the eldritch abomination that is the Nine Tails.
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Old 03-19-2017, 06:45 PM   #2262
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I personally had the same issue but I found it was less to do with the screen time, and more to do with the development of the main three characters. It almost feels as though Naruto's growth is being deliberately ignored in order to make Sakura and Sasuke feel more badass. Naruto hadn't been making the strides of progress that his teammates were and I personally found that frustrating. Granted it has been a while since I read the story, due to slow updates but I distinctly remember having that impression.
People seem to feel that way...but of the three, who scored the major kill on their actual mission? Which of the three actually won their event at the first part of chunin exam? Who had the most notable fight in the next?

Not Sakura or Sasuke.


Fire's pretty much spot on - seems like a reaction to them being raised up to the protagonist's level more than anything.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:24 PM   #2263
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Just to add my 2 cents to the discussion:

You know, as uncomfortable as I was at first with Sakura receiving the apprenticeship with Jiraiya, I'll admit I got over it rather quickly.

Gallyrant, as has been stated previously, is a good writer and I think that the intentional changes to the dynamics within Team 7 and who plays them allows for an interesting and thought provoking avenue for alternative character development that isn't explored too often.

His Naruto, where the story is now, has yet to really find and settle into his niche. So he (specifically Kakashi but whatever) is focusing on the skills and strengths that are readily apparent and available. And although they haven't allowed him to do anything terribly impressive, they're nothing to sneeze at either.

Basically, things are different and a little weird because of it, but that only makes the story (for me) more compelling.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:26 PM   #2264
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I think the issue is that the Rasengan ought to be Naruto's birthright--seeing him passed over by his godfather and someone with little connection to it taught it instead is a little off putting.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:41 PM   #2265
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I think the issue is that the Rasengan ought to be Naruto's birthright--seeing him passed over by his godfather and someone with little connection to it taught it instead is a little off putting.
This.

I haven't read the story, and even I'm on a Naruto-binge right now, however I couldn't read that fic knowing Jiraiya trains Sakura.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:52 PM   #2266
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I think the issue is that the Rasengan ought to be Naruto's birthright--seeing him passed over by his godfather and someone with little connection to it taught it instead is a little off putting.
Can't agree more. Every time I reread it I always cringe when Jiraiya introduces the technique to Sakura and begins training her to use it. If he had just decided to train her with sealing, taijutsu, advanced infiltration and information gathering techniques, I'd have been fine. The Rasengan all but being stolen from Naruto's hands left a bad taste in my mouth.

That said, it wasn't enough to stop me from reading the story. The world-building alone is worth the read (in my opinion).
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:47 PM   #2267
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Funny thing is, if all you knew about the rasengan were its requirements, and didn't know about its connection to Naruto, Sakura probably is the best member of Team 7 to be taught it. As a technique that is almost purely chakra control derived, Naruto is actually the least likely member of Team 7 to be able to learn the technique (and only did because of Shadow Clone Training bullshit), while Sakura is likely to pick it up right-quick.

Really, the most obvious thing to teach Naruto is large-scale ninjutsu that either require massive amounts of chakra to perform, or ones that can be scaled up easily by just using fucktons of chakra to make them even bigger/more deadly (which yes, rasengan qualifies as, but Naruto's chakra control isn't exactly great). Or, to take advantage of his Shadow Clones being able to perform ninjutsu of their own, teach him long range ninjutsu which he can use his shadow clones to perform from multiple angles and thus overwhelm his enemies.

Rasengan is actually a technique that is almost anti-synergistic with Naruto's best technique, since it is a melee-range only ninjutsu, that shadow clones have to put themself in easy destruction range to use.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:08 AM   #2268
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Funny thing is, if all you knew about the rasengan were its requirements, and didn't know about its connection to Naruto, Sakura probably is the best member of Team 7 to be taught it. As a technique that is almost purely chakra control derived, Naruto is actually the least likely member of Team 7 to be able to learn the technique (and only did because of Shadow Clone Training bullshit), while Sakura is likely to pick it up right-quick.
I think that Sakura wouldn't be able to train as hard with the technique due to the obvious chakra requirement of the Rasengan. She would run out of gas before I feel like she could make substantial progress due to her low chakra levels. So her greater control is mitigated to an extent. I also feel like your arbitration of why Sakura is better suited to the Rasengan could theoretically be used to justify any technique being given to her instead which makes it a facile argument in my books.

Naruto had learnt the Rasengan long before he was made aware of the shadow clone training method, he also learnt it in what was considered record time... and even if you don't link the Rasengan to Naruto through his father, Ashura apparently invented a similar technique. But hey, Gallyrat must have their reasons, but until those become clear I feel justified in criticising the decision to bequeath unto Sakura something that is so intrinsically linked to Naruto's character.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:15 AM   #2269
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Rasengan is actually a technique that is almost anti-synergistic with Naruto's best technique, since it is a melee-range only ninjutsu, that shadow clones have to put themself in easy destruction range to use.
Rasengan was one of the most used techniques in the entire series. And Naruto created a lot of variations of it. He even beat Kurama using Kage Bunshin + Rasengan + Nature Energy.

Also, considering the fact that clones are relatively easy to destroy, giving them a deadly close combat technique is the most logical choice. You should also remember the fact that Shadow Clones technique wasn't known for providing long-range combat opportunities. Normally used for information gathering before, Naruto did some amazing things with this technique, mainly due to his large chakra reserves and out-of-the-box thinking.

I can't imagine Sakura being as creative as Naruto was with Rasengan. Also, Rasengan = Pure Chakra Control is likely has its roots from fandom, as I can't recall this information from the anime or manga (so, correct me if I'm wrong). There were also some different theories in the early pages and other threads regarding the relation between the amount of chakra and control. Also, Jiraiya isn't known for his "fine control" either. So justifying the reason Sakura got Rasengan as her perfect control was a bit like taking the easy way out.

As for my opinion of the story, I really loved it. It has an amazing potential, with the worldbuilding being one of its major differences from other similar fics. Are there problems? Of course there are. Like the amount of Mokuton users and Sakura learning the Rasengan. But they didn't stop me from reading it.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:42 AM   #2270
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I think that Sakura wouldn't be able to train as hard with the technique due to the obvious chakra requirement of the Rasengan. She would run out of gas before I feel like she could make substantial progress due to her low chakra levels. So her greater control is mitigated to an extent. I also feel like your arbitration of why Sakura is better suited to the Rasengan could theoretically be used to justify any technique being given to her instead which makes it a facile argument in my books.
I disagree. Firstly, the rasengan is not necessarily such a chakra intensive technique. Kakashi can perform rasengan and he's not noted for having particularly high chakra reserves. Secondly, my point about chakra control and the rasengan was specifically because rasengan is called out as a particularly chakra control intensive technique, because it is all shape manipulation.

Quote:
Naruto had learnt the Rasengan long before he was made aware of the shadow clone training method, he also learnt it in what was considered record time... and even if you don't link the Rasengan to Naruto through his father, Ashura apparently invented a similar technique. But hey, Gallyrat must have their reasons, but until those become clear I feel justified in criticising the decision to bequeath unto Sakura something that is so intrinsically linked to Naruto's character.
You're right, I was mistaken about the shadow clones. And I don't feel that the critique is necessarily unjustified either.

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Rasengan was one of the most used techniques in the entire series. And Naruto created a lot of variations of it. He even beat Kurama using Kage Bunshin + Rasengan + Nature Energy.
This is true. However, this is only known with the benefit of hindsight and is not information anyone with access to the rasengan has.

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Also, considering the fact that clones are relatively easy to destroy, giving them a deadly close combat technique is the most logical choice. You should also remember the fact that Shadow Clones technique wasn't known for providing long-range combat opportunities. Normally used for information gathering before, Naruto did some amazing things with this technique, mainly due to his large chakra reserves and out-of-the-box thinking.
No, since shadow clones are easy to destroy, you want them to not be in clsoe combat where they can be easily destroyed. They were primarily used in close combat because Naruto is a brawler, and so uses shadow clones like a brawler. I contend that this is a less than great use of the technique.

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I can't imagine Sakura being as creative as Naruto was with Rasengan. Also, Rasengan = Pure Chakra Control is likely has its roots from fandom, as I can't recall this information from the anime or manga (so, correct me if I'm wrong). There were also some different theories in the early pages and other threads regarding the relation between the amount of chakra and control. Also, Jiraiya isn't known for his "fine control" either. So justifying the reason Sakura got Rasengan as her perfect control was a bit like taking the easy way out.
Learning the rasengan is broken into three parts.

Part One: Learn to pop the water balllon: learn the shape manipulation necessary. (Chakra Control)

Part Two: Learn to pop the rubber ball: Retain shape manipulation while using sufficient power to actually do damage (Power + Chakra Control)

Part Three: Learn to create a self-sustaining, self-contained maelstrom without popping the water balloon (More Chakra control)

The only part of the rasengan that requires raw power is making it strong enough to hurt your target. Everything else is control, control, control.


But I don't really think it's a huge deal in the end.

Heck, I hardly remember anything about Team 7 anyway, it's been so long since I read it. Does Naruto even have his shadow clones in that story?
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:00 AM   #2271
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I disagree. Firstly, the rasengan is not necessarily such a chakra intensive technique. Kakashi can perform rasengan and he's not noted for having particularly high chakra reserves. Secondly, my point about chakra control and the rasengan was specifically because rasengan is called out as a particularly chakra control intensive technique, because it is all shape manipulation.
Just because it is shape manipulation doesn't mean that it needs a high level of finessing with chakra control. Sakura is able to instinctually be extremely precise with her chakra. But Rasengan is Rotation, Power and Containment. I think Naruto learning it in the time he did at the point in his training that he did is a testament that chakra control isn't the only factor.

The Raikiri, which Kakashi could only use six of a day (part one) is a comparable technique. And while when comparing Kakashi to many S-rank ninja, he comes off as someone who doesn't particularly have much chakra, he's no slouch either and would still far outstrip Sakura in this area.

And now that I'm thinking about it I have no idea whether or not Naruto knows the shadow clone technique....
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:45 AM   #2272
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And now that I'm thinking about it I have no idea whether or not Naruto knows the shadow clone technique....
He doesn't iirc
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:57 AM   #2273
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I seem to recall that Kakashi actually had plenty of chakra for a a ninja of his caliber, if I'm not misremembering the reason he run out of juice so quickly was because sharingan consumes a lot of chakra because of it being constantly active and very chakra intensive.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:37 PM   #2274
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Kakashi is stated to have relatively average chakra reserves....for a jonin. However, it's best to keep in mind the statement was made back during the Wave Arc, when Kishimoto had yet to settle on just exactly how Chakra worked. His explanation from the beginning of the series, then during the Chunin exams, and then how it seemed to work in part 2 all seemed a bit different.

As well, we don't actually see Kakashi use the Rasengan until Shippuden, where his reserves have grown larger. Still, Kakashi having Average Reserves and with Chidori (Not Raikiri) only being able to be use 6 Times a day...Sakura, who has High Control but Small Reserves, can be expected to not make use of the Rasengan nearly as much as Naruto could. Especially since the techniques whole thing is by creating incredibly potent Chakra and shaping it.

In fact, it could be said the Rasengan is less about Control and more about Potency. The Shell of the technique has to be Potent enough to contain the absolutely destructive maelstrom contained within. That was the entire point of the Rubber Ball exercise. Creating a shitton of chakra spirals with the chakra potent enough to rip through a tough, physical hide. After that, you need a shell strong enough to keep that contained.

Despite the seeming emphasis on the Shaping of Chakra, it is very much a Power move.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:57 PM   #2275
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Can't agree more. Every time I reread it I always cringe when Jiraiya introduces the technique to Sakura and begins training her to use it. If he had just decided to train her with sealing, taijutsu, advanced infiltration and information gathering techniques, I'd have been fine. The Rasengan all but being stolen from Naruto's hands left a bad taste in my mouth.

That said, it wasn't enough to stop me from reading the story. The world-building alone is worth the read (in my opinion).
This. My biggest issue with Team 7 wasn't that Sakura was being thrust into the role of one of the protagonists or that she was gonna be a badass on par with Naruto and Sasuke, but that the author is doing this by stripping Naruto of what makes him awesome and giving it to Sakura. Naruto learning the Rasengan was the pivotal point (IMO) in the original series. It was the best example of him accomplishing something truly incredible without the help of the Kyuubi or some reincarnated spirit or his ancestry. He did it with grit and hard work and by smashing his head against an obstacle until he overcame it. It honestly feels like Jiraiya's giving Minato the middle finger by at least not teaching the Rasengan to Naruto as well and I wouldn't be suprised if Sakura eventually gets or develops the Hiraishin.

Either way, the series is still a solid 4/5 at worst. Pretty much every character besides Naruto, Sakura, and Jiraiya are written really well and the world building is out of this world.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:53 PM   #2276
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The best way to make Sakura relevant, and keep pace with Naruto and Sasuke is to follow through on her whole Ogre King Theme. We got bits of it from her learning tsunade's Super Strength technique in canon, but there are other ways to go about it. A Super Stronk, Doton or Lightning Specialist (Because Lightning's whole thing is that it 'Shatters and Breaks the Earth, taking the place of Wood in the Wu Xing)

Or, if you really want to get wacky with the Shuten-Doji theme, one legend has the Oni as the child of the Yamata no Orochi.

Tl;Dr, there are plenty of ways to make Sakura powerful without just giving her shit primarily associated with Naruto.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:09 PM   #2277
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I've run across these fics and figured I'd throw them into the pot, so to speak, on the off chance you haven't read them.

To Be Lost On The Road of Life by AthanatosOra

Summary: Obito became the Jūbi Jinchuuriki and consequently got smacked to oblivion and back, with words and Naruto's fists. He died protecting the hailed boy of prophecy and his bonds, a smile on his face as he went to join Rin and Minato in the afterlife. But things didn't go as expected, and it seems that life has more plans for him…

I'm always a bit iffy with anything related with time travel and, to be fair, I've only just started reading, but so far I've enjoyed what I've seen. The writing is solidly decent and Obito's voice is compelling enough that I think I'll enjoy the fic well enough.

Duplicity by WDW

Summary: Rin Nohara wasn't as perfect as everyone thought. A five part story and epilogue. [ObiRin] [Tiny hints of future ObiRinKaka OT3] [AU as of Chapter 629]

A good character piece on Rin, who's notorious lack of it in canon leaves a lot to be desired. In fact, it's a different spin on her that I hadn't seen applied to an actual story that was interesting enough to warrant me to complete the fic. It's six chapters and all of them are incredibly short, so even if you end up disliking it, you shouldn't waste more than half an hour at most (even then, I feel like it'd be shorter).

Intermissions by ksuzu

Summary: Naturally, Kushina decides to ward Namikaze off with an assortment of pointy objects. [A love story told in bits and pieces.

I've only read the first chapter (and loved it) so I can't advocate too very much for it, but I'm a sucker for Minato/Kushina stories and there are so few of them of any remote quality. I've got hopes for this and, the added plus is, that it's been recently completed at 58 chapters.

Cracked Mask by Denim88

Summary: Hueco Mundo; home of vicious and horrendous souls called Hollows. Then HE became one of them. Naruto will prove that even as a Hollow, life is determined by one's own beliefs, and shake the foundation of the spiritual world as a result. Naruto/Bleach fic

I've read this story at least half-a-dozen times and it never gets old. Naruto's characterization and development is compelling and spot on, his relationships and interactions with all of the Espada and even Aizen and his inner circle are all strife with complexity and depth. It's word count sits at 208,332 and 19 chapters in total. The main story is all but finished, incomplete only due to the author never finishing or publishing an epilogue. I haven't read it in a couple years now, but if I were to rate it, I'd give it a 4/5.
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:26 AM   #2278
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Is Tale of the Setting Sun worth reading? It seems an interesting story, and has a fuck-ton of favourites (5k), but I never got past the rather boring bullying and angsty stuff at the beginning.
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:37 AM   #2279
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Is Tale of the Setting Sun worth reading? It seems an interesting story, and has a fuck-ton of favourites (5k), but I never got past the rather boring bullying and angsty stuff at the beginning.
How much time do you spend wading through the shit that some authors write? It's not particularly great, but it's somewhat original, at least was... I think? I read it a long time ago. Edging towards more of a guilty pleasure than anything else really. I don't recall the bullying lasting much, which was food in Naruto's hair(?).

I think I read it purely because of the red hair thing...
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:01 PM   #2280
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Is Tale of the Setting Sun worth reading? It seems an interesting story, and has a fuck-ton of favourites (5k), but I never got past the rather boring bullying and angsty stuff at the beginning.
I think it's worth reading, off of the premise alone. Now, I haven't read it in at least a year, but I do remember it getting better after he (Naruto) leaves the Academy and becomes a proper shinobi. By that same token, I also remember becoming incredibly confused about something or another.

Either way, it's not the worst fic to spend your time reading. Especially if you're looking for something new.
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