Dark Lord Potter Forums
Go Back   Dark Lord Potter Forums > Common Room > Politics
Donate Register Rules Library List IRC Chat FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Donate to DLP Scryer Banner

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-12-2017, 09:58 PM   #221
Invictus
Heir
 
Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Cidade Maravilhosa
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,531
Impeachments are not Judicial Trials. Even if they're presided over by the Chief Justice and are treated as such, it's done by a Political body, by elected politicians of the legislative and it follows political mood. As much as people try to pass it as a special type of prick criminal trial, it's very much a political process so one should be careful to try to apply criminal logic wholesome to it.
Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2017, 08:25 PM   #222
Sesc
Moderator
Slytherin at Heart
 
Sesc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hbg., Germany
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,969
ACA repeal in on again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Link
So perhaps it’s not surprising that when Republicans are asked about this bill, they can’t even bring themselves to make an affirmative case for it. They say one of two things, and often both: First, that Obamacare is terrible, so something has to be done, and second, that they promised for seven years that they’d repeal it and they have to keep that promise. Neither one of those is an argument in favor of this bill.
I just read this column, and that excerpt made me think. The problem is -- and always has been, of course -- that Obamacare is fundamentally a conservative bill, so you literally can't come up with something that's more conservative and still a health care bill. More conservative is only no bill. Hence the GOP is furiously attacking reality and losing.

That's not new. But here's what would be: If the GOP had balls (and/or got desperate), they'd take Obamacare, and expand it. Expand the individual mandate, get more people into the exchanges, (that way) fix the premiums problem.

This has three advantages. One, they will get it passed. The Democrats have to agree, and it also fits Trumps "beautiful health care for everyone". Two and three, this helps to keep both promises -- Obamacare was terrible and needed to be fixed so they did it, and they repealed and replaced it.

Of course, a more comprehensive Obamacare is not what anyone meant with "repeal and replace", but that's the beauty -- it keeps the letter of the promise with a reinvention of its spirit that allows them to jump out of all corners they painted themselves into in one fell swoop.
__________________
She shuddered, even as we were descending, but when we dismounted, there was no sadness, no grief. Her ice blue eyes burned in boundless fury, a look so piercing it went clean through me. It was simultaneously the most beautiful and most terrifying thing I had ever seen on her face.

“Someone is going to pay.”

Kairos

________________________________
FF.net :: By That Last Candle's Light :: The French Affair :: Unatoned


I heard that you like the bad girls, honey,
Is that true?
Sesc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2017, 03:18 AM   #223
Eilyfe
Death Eater
 
Eilyfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 900
Not that I'm an expert on American politics, but that seems so unlikely to me as to be far removed even from being a pipe dream.
__________________
"Rise like lions after slumber
in unvanquishable number;
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many, they are few."

Eilyfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Thumbs Up 2 thumbs up
Old 07-15-2017, 07:53 PM   #224
wolf550e
High Inquisitor
 
wolf550e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 564
DLP Supporter Donor Star
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesc View Post
Drugs. Crazy drugs.
The owners of the GOP paid for a tax cut and they will get it. What is not clear?
wolf550e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2017, 08:34 PM   #225
Sesc
Moderator
Slytherin at Heart
 
Sesc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hbg., Germany
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,969
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf550e View Post
The owners of the GOP paid for a tax cut and they will get it. What is not clear?
_Numbers._
__________________
She shuddered, even as we were descending, but when we dismounted, there was no sadness, no grief. Her ice blue eyes burned in boundless fury, a look so piercing it went clean through me. It was simultaneously the most beautiful and most terrifying thing I had ever seen on her face.

“Someone is going to pay.”

Kairos

________________________________
FF.net :: By That Last Candle's Light :: The French Affair :: Unatoned


I heard that you like the bad girls, honey,
Is that true?
Sesc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 03:45 AM   #226
fire
High Inquisitor
 
fire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesc View Post
You're right that they (probably) can't pass ACA repeal, and so they won't be able to push through permanent tax cuts via reconciliation.

But they certainly can do Bush tax cuts v2 - temporary and sunset after 10 years. That's good enough for them, tbh.
__________________
The road to hell is paved with good intentions,
the road to heaven with corpses.
fire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 08:51 PM   #227
ASmallBundleOfToothpicks
Groundskeeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Tir-Na-Nogth
Age: 28
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesc View Post
Heh. You silly furanurrs, and yurr cray-zee idears... like representative democracy following the will of the populace, when you could have good, solid oligarchy like the US of A. Git on our level of corruption fueled by hyper accurate Gerrymandering, Super-PACS, election fraud, mass incarceration, and voter suppression.

Seriously though, it will get through. There is a lot of money from donors riding on it.
ASmallBundleOfToothpicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 09:53 PM   #228
Sesc
Moderator
Slytherin at Heart
 
Sesc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hbg., Germany
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,969
?

It has nothing to do with popular opinion. McConnell can afford to lose two, and that's what he's got. For Paul, it's not repeal enough, and for Collins, it's not replace enough. I doubt he's going to convince either, and, most importantly: Not simultaneously. Moving the bill in one direction creates issues in the other, it's mutually exclusive. So you're left with only a single Senator who can blow up the whole thing, and a handful is currently evaluating what a yes-vote means for their political careers. All in all, I give it even odds. It might happen or it might not.

Anyway, that wasn't even the point. I just considered a different scenario that given McConnell's lack of really any principles actually might have a chance of greater than zero. If you can't defeat it, embrace it. He'll try his best to never let this become the only option left, but if this doesn't get passed, we're one step closer.
__________________
She shuddered, even as we were descending, but when we dismounted, there was no sadness, no grief. Her ice blue eyes burned in boundless fury, a look so piercing it went clean through me. It was simultaneously the most beautiful and most terrifying thing I had ever seen on her face.

“Someone is going to pay.”

Kairos

________________________________
FF.net :: By That Last Candle's Light :: The French Affair :: Unatoned


I heard that you like the bad girls, honey,
Is that true?
Sesc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 11:21 AM   #229
ASmallBundleOfToothpicks
Groundskeeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Tir-Na-Nogth
Age: 28
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesc View Post
?

It has nothing to do with popular opinion. McConnell can afford to lose two, and that's what he's got. For Paul, it's not repeal enough, and for Collins, it's not replace enough. I doubt he's going to convince either, and, most importantly: Not simultaneously. Moving the bill in one direction creates issues in the other, it's mutually exclusive. So you're left with only a single Senator who can blow up the whole thing, and a handful is currently evaluating what a yes-vote means for their political careers. All in all, I give it even odds. It might happen or it might not.
Or McConnell's sugardaddies pay for a couple of senators to flip, regardless of their party affiliation. I rate that scenario much more likely than McConnell 4D chessing himself into losing his flow of money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesc View Post
Anyway, that wasn't even the point. I just considered a different scenario that given McConnell's lack of really any principles actually might have a chance of greater than zero. If you can't defeat it, embrace it. He'll try his best to never let this become the only option left, but if this doesn't get passed, we're one step closer.
Now here's the problem- McConnell does have principles. Horrific, terrifying, and insane values (by my standards, at least), but he's got them. That's why he was supported by the Kochs and their ilk. He legitimately believes that all of his lying to his base, his corporate giveaways, environmental deregulation, crippling the education system, and interventionism will benefit his people. His people, of course, are his "donors."

The best case scenario for the the average american is that Sanders and the progressives raise enough of a media stink that the donors get cold feet.
ASmallBundleOfToothpicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 12:00 PM   #230
Sesc
Moderator
Slytherin at Heart
 
Sesc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hbg., Germany
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,969
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASmallBundleOfToothpicks View Post
Now here's the problem- McConnell does have principles. Horrific, terrifying, and insane values (by my standards, at least), but he's got them.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We'll have to disagree. How long's he been in the Senate now, 30+ years? He's been everything to everyone and said everything and the opposite. Whatever was expedient (to his aims) he's done, and yes, he's exactly the type to play 4D-chess. He wouldn't be where he is otherwise. I don't even think he cares much about legislation (or legislating) in general. He just like to play politics.
__________________
She shuddered, even as we were descending, but when we dismounted, there was no sadness, no grief. Her ice blue eyes burned in boundless fury, a look so piercing it went clean through me. It was simultaneously the most beautiful and most terrifying thing I had ever seen on her face.

“Someone is going to pay.”

Kairos

________________________________
FF.net :: By That Last Candle's Light :: The French Affair :: Unatoned


I heard that you like the bad girls, honey,
Is that true?
Sesc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 09:15 PM   #231
Silens Cursor
The Chosen One
The Silencer
 
Silens Cursor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The other side of reality
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,015
DLP Supporter Donor Star
Quote:
Now here's the problem- McConnell does have principles. Horrific, terrifying, and insane values (by my standards, at least), but he's got them. That's why he was supported by the Kochs and their ilk. He legitimately believes that all of his lying to his base, his corporate giveaways, environmental deregulation, crippling the education system, and interventionism will benefit his people. His people, of course, are his "donors."

The best case scenario for the the average american is that Sanders and the progressives raise enough of a media stink that the donors get cold feet.
I think you're giving McConnell and the donors too much credit - half because he was willing to post-pone a vote since McCain had surgery (which if he had Dem flippers in reserve he wouldn't need)...

And also because Moran and Lee flipped to 'No' minutes ago, the sort of thing that McConnell should have been able to shut down before going live and before Trump says something asinine that'll likely solidify their choices.
Silens Cursor is offline   Reply With Quote
Thumbs Up 1 Thumb Up
Old 07-17-2017, 11:15 PM   #232
awinarock
The Chosen One
 
awinarock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,177
I've been listening to a lot of political pundits who say that McConnell may actually want the bill to fail because it would be political suicide for a decent number of Republicans in the upcoming general election and so he and the GOP could say that at least they tried. What do ya'll think?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Martian
I can't wait till I have grandchildren. "When I was younger, I had to walk to the rim of a crater. Uphill! In an EVA suit! On Mars, ya little shit! Ya hear me? Mars!"
awinarock is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 03:46 AM   #233
Darth_Revan
Secret Squirrel
 
Darth_Revan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Empire City
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,761
DLP Supporter Donor Star
Quote:
Originally Posted by awinarock View Post
I've been listening to a lot of political pundits who say that McConnell may actually want the bill to fail because it would be political suicide for a decent number of Republicans in the upcoming general election and so he and the GOP could say that at least they tried. What do ya'll think?
I think it's more politically important for him to accomplish what he said he'd accomplish if the voters gave his party majorities.
__________________

Peace is a lie, the greatest lie there is. The truth is strife. Struggle. Pain. Suffering.

And from that turmoil, power. The power to bend the universe to my will.

- Revan, Dark Lord of the Sith
Darth_Revan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 08:57 AM   #234
Johnnyseattle
High Inquisitor
 
Johnnyseattle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Washington State / Cascadia
Gender: Male
Posts: 588
DLP Supporter Donor Star
Quote:
Originally Posted by awinarock View Post
I've been listening to a lot of political pundits who say that McConnell may actually want the bill to fail because it would be political suicide for a decent number of Republicans in the upcoming general election and so he and the GOP could say that at least they tried. What do ya'll think?
If he was enough of a forward-thinker to plan that out, the theoretically he probably could have come up with a better plan for the whole ordeal in the multiple years he's been bitching about it, you know, before they held a complete majority that they still can't manage to do anything with.

But no, his (and apparently the whole Republican party's) entire agenda was only to obstruct Obama at every turn, and nobody ever considered they'd have to actually DO anything once he was gone. And so here we are, and miraculously people are doing what they should, despite the 'party-before-country' mentality that seems to have penetrated so much of the political landscape.

I mean, when a few guys from two of your most staunch red states nope out of it, that seems like a pretty clear sign that you're fucking it all up.
__________________
How to add that extra spark to your romantic scenes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don E. Delivery View Post
Neither noticed Neville Longbottom watching them and masturbating furiously.
Johnnyseattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 12:08 PM   #235
fire
High Inquisitor
 
fire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 506
Good riddance BRCA you shit and useless legislation.
__________________
The road to hell is paved with good intentions,
the road to heaven with corpses.
fire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 12:21 PM   #236
Agayek
Dark Lord
 
Agayek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by fire View Post
Good riddance BRCA you shit and useless legislation.
What the hell's the BRCA (or do you mean the bipartisan campaign reform act?) and what happened to it?
__________________
Agayek is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 02:16 PM   #237
Oment
Chief Warlock
The Betrayer
 
Oment's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,421
Probably a typo.

Also, the repeal-and-delay option that was being floated has also been torpedoed due to three Senators (Collins, Moore Capito, Murkowski) voting no on it.

Obamacare lives, for now.
__________________
Curse my sudden but inevitable betrayals.

~R.I.P. Oz's dick, 1990-2016.~
Oment is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 03:30 PM   #238
Sesc
Moderator
Slytherin at Heart
 
Sesc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hbg., Germany
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,969
It really doesn't. It's limping along -- too dead to live, too alive to die.

Keep in mind that Trump effectively killed the mandate, so you now have people insuring themselves when they get sick. Enough state exchanges have only one provider left, and the rate hike is very much an issue.

Obamacare does need to be fixed -- and it could be fixed, more importantly. Trump has so far torpedo'ed it instead.

@awinarock: I don't doubt that McConnell played through this outcome (it was too likely not to), but I do doubt he preferred it. It's all fine and well to go "the swing voters", but "repeal & replace" will have approximately 100% approval at the base, and you kinda need those votes as well. Hence why I pondered how "repeal & replace" could be kept alive and made to work, by re-defining the spirit of it, above.

@Johnnyseattle: Don't mix up the reasons for pulling the support, though. Moran and Lee didn't vote for it because it wasn't conservative (read: cruel to those who need it, and rewarding to those who don't) enough. McConnell failed the second time around for the same reason he failed the first time around: His party was demanding diametrically opposite things of him and the bill, and those that were left, in the middle, weren't enough to pass it.

My conclusion from this is that the GOP currently is unable to govern. I wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't pass a budget either, and there actually is a non-zero chance they shut down their own government and fail to raise the debt ceiling as well. They simply disagree amongst themselves wtf they want. And Trump does know what he wants ... every minute anew. So, where's the direction supposed to come from?
__________________
She shuddered, even as we were descending, but when we dismounted, there was no sadness, no grief. Her ice blue eyes burned in boundless fury, a look so piercing it went clean through me. It was simultaneously the most beautiful and most terrifying thing I had ever seen on her face.

“Someone is going to pay.”

Kairos

________________________________
FF.net :: By That Last Candle's Light :: The French Affair :: Unatoned


I heard that you like the bad girls, honey,
Is that true?
Sesc is offline   Reply With Quote
Thumbs Up 2 thumbs up
Old 07-18-2017, 06:08 PM   #239
Darth_Revan
Secret Squirrel
 
Darth_Revan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Empire City
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,761
DLP Supporter Donor Star
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agayek View Post
What the hell's the BRCA (or do you mean the bipartisan campaign reform act?) and what happened to it?
It's a typo. The Better Care Reconciliation Act (BCRA) is the name of the Senate's version of the American Health Care Act (AHCA, the House's version).
__________________

Peace is a lie, the greatest lie there is. The truth is strife. Struggle. Pain. Suffering.

And from that turmoil, power. The power to bend the universe to my will.

- Revan, Dark Lord of the Sith
Darth_Revan is offline   Reply With Quote
Thumbs Up 1 Thumb Up
Old 07-18-2017, 06:56 PM   #240
The Iron Rose
Order Member
 
The Iron Rose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Gender: Female
Posts: 849
Apparently Caitlyn Jenner is planning a Senate run.

http://www.avclub.com/article/caitly...ocialMarketing

Can't imagine that'll end well for her.

Conservatives will hate her because she's transgender, and lefties will hate her because they're a pack of vicious fuckers with a taste for thoughtcrime. Which leaves what, liberals who can be guilted into voting for the minority candidate and Republicans trying to convince themselves that they're still good people?

A grand total of probably six people are not enough to make up a base.
The Iron Rose is online now   Reply With Quote


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
thebrute7
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Trumperium of Mankind fire Politics 2071 06-14-2017 08:14 PM
Terrorism and the Pussy!western world Mahotsuai-Sama Real Life Discussion 36 10-20-2006 09:31 PM
Albus Dumbledore = Julius Caesar. Giovanni General Discussion 24 02-26-2006 12:05 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2005 - 2016 DLP Group. All rights reserved.
No personal intellectual property on this site may be used without the credit and express permission of the respective authors.