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Old 06-14-2016, 03:06 PM   #1401
VanRopen
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But you don't have that correlation. In recent years, the number of households with guns has been increasing yet violent crime has precipitously declined.
Yeah, and if throwing two variables together without any attention paid to context was enough to establish correlation, I'd be promoting piracy to combat global warming.

In any case, this is the thread to derp about this subject and proclaim the infallibility of your position after stripping said situation of all context. Not the election one.
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Old 06-14-2016, 03:41 PM   #1402
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In any case, this is the thread to derp about this subject and proclaim the infallibility of your position after stripping said situation of all context. Not the election one.
Oh get off your high fucking horse, you were in the election thread posting about guns too.
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Old 06-14-2016, 03:49 PM   #1403
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Oh get off your high fucking horse, you were in the election thread posting about guns too.
>.>

Uh, yeah? I responded to his post and said " ...that said, we have a sticky for this." He responded to me in the election thread itself, so I brought the quote chain over here - in retrospect, sure, should have done that from the start. Then Sesc came in and said stfu.
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Old 06-15-2016, 06:27 PM   #1404
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I don't generally bump quiet threads, but there is an interesting judicial development in the gun rights arena today that will doubtless provoke opinions from anyone with the stake in the matter.

To whit: a panel opinion from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco has ruled that the Second Amendment does not protect the right to carry a concealed weapon. While the Court's decision in Heller et al. may protect your right to keep and bear arms, the 9th Circuit writes, it does not protect your right to do so in a concealed manner. Link to the NY Times coverage.

I can practically feel Scrubb's outrage brewing...
Naa, that court isn't known as the 9th circus court for nothing. As Wildfeather said, either you get to carry them openly, or you get to carry them concealed. The courts can't ban both, or they're violating the Second Amendment and stare decisis on its interpretation.
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:51 PM   #1405
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I do not believe that gun ownership is a constitutional right under the 2nd Amendment.
Do you think that it is not a right, or that it shouldn't be a right? There's an important distinction there.
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Old 09-12-2016, 04:28 PM   #1406
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That it shouldn't be a right under the 2nd Amendment.
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:33 AM   #1407
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Will a trump presidency lead to greater support for the second amendment among the left? Given the way some people are freaking out and saying Trump is the next coming of Hitler will more left-leaning people feel they have to arm themselves to protect themselves from tyranny? Real or imagined.

I suspect there will be some surge in support, but i don't think it will be huge.
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Old 02-02-2017, 07:19 AM   #1408
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Will a trump presidency lead to greater support for the second amendment among the left?
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Mostly anecdotal and pre-dates the inauguration, but there's a chance that it will lead to greater support.

...or the Left will just arm up a bit privately, but still publicly advocate increased controls. The Right - although they seem to be a lot better at it - doesn't have a total monopoly on cognitive dissonance.
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Old 02-02-2017, 12:25 PM   #1409
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Should be funny. Left-wing liberals crying for stricter gun control while they arm themselves secretly. Oh the irony.
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Old 02-02-2017, 12:30 PM   #1410
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Will a trump presidency lead to greater support for the second amendment among the left? Given the way some people are freaking out and saying Trump is the next coming of Hitler will more left-leaning people feel they have to arm themselves to protect themselves from tyranny? Real or imagined.

I suspect there will be some surge in support, but i don't think it will be huge.
I remember reading a bunch of stories in the first week or two following the election about a spike in gun sales to minorities and LGBT folks. I'd be pretty surprised if that didn't end up leading to an overall increase in support for the second amendment, as these people become more familiar with firearms and they lose the unknown-scary factor.
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Old 02-02-2017, 01:21 PM   #1411
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I remember reading a bunch of stories in the first week or two following the election about a spike in gun sales to minorities and LGBT folks. I'd be pretty surprised if that didn't end up leading to an overall increase in support for the second amendment, as these people become more familiar with firearms and they lose the unknown-scary factor.
I could see it. After all, before the NRA became all about "Total Unrestricted Gun Freedom!" and tied itself so heavily to the post-Southern Strategy Republicans they had a much better reputation in minority communities. Groups that had to constantly worry about being murdered by their neighbors saw the benefits of gun ownership, and back in ye olden days at-risk minority groups were a lot more likely to have their second amendment rights targeted.
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Old 02-02-2017, 01:29 PM   #1412
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For the reasons listed above and the uncertainty of a Trump Presidency, I have been thinking about getting a gun, even if I do not necessarily support them.

For me it is simple, I wish we lived in a world that we did not need guns, or at least much stricter rules on them. I would love to have a system set up similar to the DMV for firearms, where you would need to get a license to get one (which requires a special firearm training class) and each gun is tracked similarly to cars.

That being said, I am starting to get seriously worried about where this country is headed and being a 5 foot tall woman, I don't really have much strength to protect myself and the ones I care about. The right has guns in abundance, and if shit gets real, I want to be able to defend myself, or if needed be, take back our country.

I don't want to fight nor do I want a gun, but I will do both if I have to.
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Old 02-02-2017, 04:00 PM   #1413
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I'm not sure of the logic behind your statement. You want to create a registry of everyone who has guns (either at the state or federal level) , but you want to get a gun because you feel it may be necessary to use it to defend the US government against a political transition away from democracy. Yet the first will paint a target on you and legitimize any action taken against you because not only are you a political dissident, but you're an armed political dissident.

Fact is, if you think a violent revolution may be necessary, the best thing to do is obtain your weapons legally and do your best to never mention having them again to anyone you associate with politically while you fight to resist change through peaceful methodology. Then if violence becomes necessary you have the arms you need but have not painted a target on your back because you've shoved it in the face of the government "I am a dissenter and I am armed".


If some leader obtains the power to become a fascist leader in the US, the first thing they will do is look at who has guns, and who opposed him (if they haven't already) . Anyone who fits both categories will be swiftly silenced through covert methods if possible.

Though I (being trained in martial arts and firearms, but not in military tactics and strategy) would think if you were really against violence but wanted to defend yourself you night want to consider taking up a martial art, which has numerous other benefits (such as physical fitness, teaching self-control, etc) as well as giving you the ability to defend yourself or others.
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Old 02-02-2017, 04:55 PM   #1414
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Should be funny. Left-wing liberals crying for stricter gun control while they arm themselves secretly. Oh the irony.
I'm a liberal who just bought another gun, mostly because I wanted another one, and I fucking like guns. I also don't hide the fact that I want stricter gun control. So you can masturbate to the imagined hypocrisy and liberal tears all you want, but it is entirely possible for people, both liberal and conservative, to own guns AND support stricter gun control.

That being said, I certainly hope this gets more liberals to buy firearms. One of the biggest issues with gun control advocates, in my opinion, is that a lot of times, it seems like they have no fucking idea what they're talking about, and lump every issue into the same giant pile of guns=bad. Smart gun control needs to happen, while also maintaining as much of our right to bear arms as possible, and the only way to do that is to know what the fuck you're talking about when you talk about guns and gun control.
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Old 02-02-2017, 04:58 PM   #1415
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"Take back our country"? I'm sorry, but I've always found this notion laughable. A civilian militia may have made sense when the 2nd Amendment was written, but if a reality arises that your country has been "taken", it'll be with the support of the law enforcement and military and no civilian militia in 21st century is going to have a real chance against what's often (and rightly imo) said to be the best fighting force in human history. If you want a gun for personal protection, that's an argument that makes sense. The other one doesn't.

Edit: Missed the previous post. Was replying to Lindsey.
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Old 02-02-2017, 05:20 PM   #1416
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I'm a liberal who just bought another gun, mostly because I wanted another one, and I fucking like guns. I also don't hide the fact that I want stricter gun control. So you can masturbate to the imagined hypocrisy and liberal tears all you want, but it is entirely possible for people, both liberal and conservative, to own guns AND support stricter gun control.

That being said, I certainly hope this gets more liberals to buy firearms. One of the biggest issues with gun control advocates, in my opinion, is that a lot of times, it seems like they have no fucking idea what they're talking about, and lump every issue into the same giant pile of guns=bad. Smart gun control needs to happen, while also maintaining as much of our right to bear arms as possible, and the only way to do that is to know what the fuck you're talking about when you talk about guns and gun control.
Agreed: a lot of my objections to the current gun control efforts has less to do with hating the idea of there being some regulation, and more to do with the fact that a lot of these suggested laws come from people who have some very strange ideas about guns and gun owners.

It's a little hard to take gun control advocates seriously when some of them have no idea what the current laws are, what guns are and aren't legal, and seem to believe that anyone who wants to own a gun must be planning to commit murder.
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:22 PM   #1417
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"Take back our country"? I'm sorry, but I've always found this notion laughable. A civilian militia may have made sense when the 2nd Amendment was written, but if a reality arises that your country has been "taken", it'll be with the support of the law enforcement and military and no civilian militia in 21st century is going to have a real chance against what's often (and rightly imo) said to be the best fighting force in human history. If you want a gun for personal protection, that's an argument that makes sense. The other one doesn't.

Edit: Missed the previous post. Was replying to Lindsey.
Yes, that's why the US won in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan... Oh wait.
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:15 PM   #1418
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To be fair those were/are very different situations to the one militia fetishists envision while they stock up in the event that their government 'goes bad'.
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Old 02-03-2017, 06:05 AM   #1419
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To be fair those were/are very different situations to the one militia fetishists envision while they stock up in the event that their government 'goes bad'.
I don't generally imagine a full scale revolution involving a single dude going inna woods.
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Old 02-03-2017, 02:20 PM   #1420
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The thing is, if a rebellion is going to happen, it won't split the country down military/civilian lines. It'll go by party lines, and the supporters of Trump are actually the least likely to support any kind of coup attempt, given how much they fetishise the constitution.
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