Dark Lord Potter Forums Dark Lord Potter Forums  
Go Back   Dark Lord Potter Forums > Common Room > Politics
Donate Register Rules Library List IRC Chat FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Notices

Donate to DLP PatronusCharm Banner

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-20-2013, 09:15 PM   #1
mknote
Disappeared
1/3 of the Note Bros.
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melbourne, Florida, United States
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,347
DLP Supporter Donor Star
Israel/Palestine Mega Thread

Source

Quote:
Palestinian children in the Gaza and the West Bank, captured by Israel in the 1967 war, are routinely denied registration of their birth and access to health care, decent schools and clean water, the U.N. Committee on the Rights of the Child said.

"Palestinian children arrested by (Israeli) military and police are systematically subject to degrading treatment, and often to acts of torture, are interrogated in Hebrew, a language they did not understand, and sign confessions in Hebrew in order to be released," it said in a report.

...

Most Palestinian children arrested are accused of having thrown stones, an offence which can carry a penalty of up to 20 years in prison, the committee said. Israeli soldiers had testified to the often arbitrary nature of the arrests, it said.

...

During the 10-year period, an estimated 7,000 Palestinian children aged 12 to 17, but some as young as nine, had been arrested, interrogated and detained, the U.N. report said.

Many are brought in leg chains and shackles before military courts, while youths are held in solitary confinement, sometimes for months, the report said.

...

Israeli soldiers had used Palestinian children to enter potentially dangerous buildings before them and to stand in front of military vehicles to deter stone-throwing, it said.

"Almost all those using children as human shields and informants have remained unpunished and the soldiers convicted for having forced at gunpoint a nine-year-old child to search bags suspected of containing explosives only received a suspended sentence of three months and were demoted," it said.
...

Okay, let me say a few things first. I make the occasional post on the Politics forum when I think I have something witty or pertinent to say, but for the most part I tend to avoid it because a) politics isn't a subject that generally interests me and b) emotions tend to run high here, much more so than when discussing fan-made stories of a fictional work.

I have also tended to be a supporter of Israel, even though I have seen them do some questionable things. I think that the Jewish people have had a rough time of it for the past few... millennia... and so they deserve a bit of a break.

I can no longer say that.

This is the first news story in a long time that has made me angry. Angry that it's only now being discovered in a world with the technology we have. Angry at a culture that knows what it's like to be persecuted to act this way in such an open manner. Angry that an ally to the US does this so brazenly and yet we're still allied with them.

This isn't some antisemitic rhetoric, this is the UN Committee on the Rights of a Child saying this. This government is throwing children into prison for 20 years for the horrendous crime of throwing stones. Nine year olds are being dragged in shackles before a military court. Nine year olds are being used as human shields, for fuck's sake! This is what I expect from the Taliban, not a sovereign nation that my nation is allied with!

I'm sorry, I have to step away, cool down, and collect my thoughts. I'll leave this here for people to discuss. Maybe I'm seeing this wrong and this is just a knee-jerk reaction, but goddamn am I pissed off right now.

Last edited by mknote; 06-20-2013 at 09:18 PM.
mknote is offline   Reply With Quote
Thumbs Up 1 Thumb Up
Old 06-20-2013, 09:41 PM   #2
Krogan
Third Year
Alien in a Hat
 
Krogan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Gender: Male
Posts: 108
DLP Supporter Donor Star
High Score: 2,719
Well all Ill ask here is simply, is there any proof? Of any of this? This is not me trying to defend Israel or bash on it but I simply find it incredibly difficult to believe between the mountain of people I personally know who were over there on their tours and the technology around today that such public displays like the children shielding the tanks have never once been seen or mentioned. Something about all of this just seems very off to me.
__________________
Krogan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 09:47 PM   #3
Psychotic Cat
Unspeakable
 
Psychotic Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 757
I am Jacks complete and utter lack of surprise.

This is what Israel does, it's what Israel has done for years and it is what Israel will continue to do until the last "settlement" borders are drawn and there is no such thing as Palestine left.

It will continue to happen because America will continue to support Israel and there is no one willing and able to stand up to America and Israel for the sake of the Palestinian people.

It will continue to happen and most people will continue to look the other way and pretend nothing is wrong, because anyone who doesn't is an anti-semite.
Psychotic Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 09:48 PM   #4
Orm Embar
Auror
 
Orm Embar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: On the shores of Selidor
Gender: Male
Posts: 605
Fuck the whole sordid mess of rivalries and religious vendettas that is the Middle East.
__________________
"Mass murderer or not, you have to admire the kind of person who looks at an aircraft carrier and thinks 'projectile weapon.'" - Security Directorate official, on Traveler
Orm Embar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 10:06 PM   #5
Tehan
Avatar of Khorne
 
Tehan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,743
DLP Supporter Donor Star
Israel being a dick to Palestine, UN still toothless; news at 11.
__________________
Tehan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 10:15 PM   #6
mknote
Disappeared
1/3 of the Note Bros.
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melbourne, Florida, United States
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,347
DLP Supporter Donor Star
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tehan View Post
Israel being a dick to Palestine, UN still toothless; news at 11.
Yeah, I agree that it isn't exactly news that Israel was a dick. I didn't know it was this bad though, which is why I posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic Cat View Post
It will continue to happen because America will continue to support Israel and there is no one willing and able to stand up to America and Israel for the sake of the Palestinian people.

It will continue to happen and most people will continue to look the other way and pretend nothing is wrong, because anyone who doesn't is an anti-semite.
I think hope that there is a point in which the US would stop supporting such a government. I would hope that this would be that point, but considering the rather blasé attitude here on DLP, though, I kind of doubt it.

It changed my opinion, at least.
mknote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 11:07 PM   #7
Ravnius
Auror
 
Ravnius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South U.S.
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Posts: 687
Not to try to flame this, but hasn't Palestine, in the history of this stupid conflict, done a LOT worse?
__________________
If I didn't type so fast, I'd have to edit my posts less.

College is where a boy grows to become a man. A man with no prospects for the immediate future and crippling personal debt. But a man nonetheless!
Ravnius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 11:08 PM   #8
Banta
The Chosen One
 
Banta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oregon
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,064
DLP Supporter Donor Star
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravnius View Post
Not to try to flame this, but hasn't Palestine, in the history of this stupid conflict, done a LOT worse?
They both have, which is part of why the entire "peace process" is an absolute joke.
Banta is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 11:11 PM   #9
Ravnius
Auror
 
Ravnius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South U.S.
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Posts: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banta View Post
They both have, which is part of why the entire "peace process" is an absolute joke.
How does one even go about ending a war that's been on for as long as we've had writing?
__________________
If I didn't type so fast, I'd have to edit my posts less.

College is where a boy grows to become a man. A man with no prospects for the immediate future and crippling personal debt. But a man nonetheless!
Ravnius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 12:51 AM   #10
Banta
The Chosen One
 
Banta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oregon
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,064
DLP Supporter Donor Star
Making Israel not a Jewish state would be a good step, but that's never going to happen.
Banta is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 12:52 AM   #11
Ravnius
Auror
 
Ravnius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South U.S.
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Posts: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banta View Post
Making Israel not a Jewish state would be a good step, but that's never going to happen.
Not to be disparaging, but I really don't see how that would change anything. Explanation, pl0x?
__________________
If I didn't type so fast, I'd have to edit my posts less.

College is where a boy grows to become a man. A man with no prospects for the immediate future and crippling personal debt. But a man nonetheless!
Ravnius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 01:24 AM   #12
Vir
Centauri Ambassador
Prodigium Magus
 
Vir's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 1
DLP Supporter Donor Star
High Score: 1,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mknote
Talking about morality in war or something like that
I'm dying of laughter here. You seem to live in some weird world where morality has a place in warfare. Where there are such things as "honour" and "duty." The only role those two concepts have in war is to get people killed.

Rules of war are only convenient for so long.

Yeah, Israel has used children as human shields. Palestine has done it too. And they've used them as suicide bombers. And they've launched rocket attacks from schools, hospitals, and residential neighbourhoods with the hopes that Israel will retaliate and cause some collateral damage so that they can score points with people. You know, the same people who will get outraged and then donate some money to a front NGO which will then be used to buy weapons and bombs.

This conflict is old. If you think that either side is in the wrong, then you're the only one that is mistaken. There is a history of everyone around Israel attacking Israel. There is a history of Israel accepting the two-state solution, and the Palestinians responding with some rocket attacks aimed at Israeli schools.

Does Israel provoke Palestine? Of course they do. Domestically it's in their short term interest to do so. Do they want a long-term solution? Of course they do. Will they get it? No.

Personally, I blame the proportional representation system that they have going. It allows crazy-right wing parties to hold the balance of power in government, and therefore cause all kinds of problems.

Israel being a Jewish state isn't the problem. Their electoral system is. As for Palestine? Their problem isn't so much the Jews, but rather the problem is their own internal issues.
Vir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 01:44 AM   #13
mknote
Disappeared
1/3 of the Note Bros.
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melbourne, Florida, United States
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,347
DLP Supporter Donor Star
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vir View Post
I'm dying of laughter here. You seem to live in some weird world where morality has a place in warfare. Where there are such things as "honour" and "duty." The only role those two concepts have in war is to get people killed.

Rules of war are only convenient for so long.
Yes, as a matter of fact, I do live in such a mindset. And I don't know why you're laughing at that – I'd personally be ashamed if I had your mindset. When war is absolutely necessary, we must have rules to keep it civilized – to do anything else would be, frankly, barbaric.
mknote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 01:51 AM   #14
Vir
Centauri Ambassador
Prodigium Magus
 
Vir's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 1
DLP Supporter Donor Star
High Score: 1,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknote View Post
Yes, as a matter of fact, I do live in such a mindset. And I don't know why you're laughing at that – I'd personally be ashamed if I had your mindset. When war is absolutely necessary, we must have rules to keep it civilized – to do anything else would be, frankly, barbaric.
Man. We're barbarians. I'm honestly thankful that this war hasn't gotten dirty yet. When it comes to International Politics, there is no such thing as morality.

I wonder why Palestine hasn't gotten its hands on nerve gas, or mustard gas, or a dirty bomb. I mean, Israeli internal security (shin-bet) is awesome, and external security (Mossad) is great at their jobs, but there's only so much that can be done.
Vir is offline   Reply With Quote
Thumbs Up 4 thumbs up
Old 06-21-2013, 02:26 AM   #15
Grubdubdub
Supreme Mugwump
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,601
Having recently arrested a 12 year boy (2 weeks ago or so), I can say he was freed after 48 hours. His parents will pay a fine that amounts to a salary of a month or three. However, I do acknowledge that there many cases of almost ulimited-time arrests that last for months without trial in "national security" cases. Obviously, it's mainly bullshit - but it's a hard to claim that the US doesn't do the same and worse. About human shields: proof please. I was never instructed to do that, the opposite really.

Conclusion: the situation is fucked up, and so fucked up things happen. Israel is at fault for many things, but I really do think and hope we can fix that internally.
__________________


PokemonMaster
Grubdubdub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 12:42 PM   #16
Vir
Centauri Ambassador
Prodigium Magus
 
Vir's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 1
DLP Supporter Donor Star
High Score: 1,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubdubdub View Post
Having recently arrested a 12 year boy (2 weeks ago or so), I can say he was freed after 48 hours. His parents will pay a fine that amounts to a salary of a month or three. However, I do acknowledge that there many cases of almost ulimited-time arrests that last for months without trial in "national security" cases. Obviously, it's mainly bullshit - but it's a hard to claim that the US doesn't do the same and worse. About human shields: proof please. I was never instructed to do that, the opposite really.

Conclusion: the situation is fucked up, and so fucked up things happen. Israel is at fault for many things, but I really do think and hope we can fix that internally.
Some photos made the rounds a few years ago of Israeli soldiers using some Palestinians as human shields. That's where it comes from, despite the IDF pretty much ordering otherwise.
Vir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 01:30 PM   #17
Hashasheen
Totally Sirius
 
Hashasheen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bristol
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravnius View Post
How does one even go about ending a war that's been on for as long as we've had writing?
... I wasn't aware that writing was only a hundred years old.

*shrugs* As one of the resident locals, all I can say is that it's a fucking mess. Morality doesn't come into it, neither side is better than the other, it's a bleeding ground that has basically turned both sides into Lord of the Flies and the only way it's going to end is long in the future, once Israel is done "re-settling" everything they want or if the Palestinians manage to outbreed the Israelis within their own borders to the point where there are more Israeli Arabs and Palestinians than Israeli Jews.

I've often been curious about how things are going to be going forward with the Israelis and their burgeoning Orthodox population, since those guys are a major drain on their economy and military (especially since they have the most kids), and I can't see it going anywhere but even worse for everyone.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashaya
Taure is more than enough woman for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Portus View Post
Mind giving a description of your gran, in particular without her bifocals and dentures?

This may sound odd, but goddamn, does she sound familiar.
Hashasheen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 01:32 PM   #18
Riley
Alchemist
 
Riley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On The Eastern Seaboard, USA
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,331
DLP Supporter Donor Star
As someone not from the local area, do the Orthodox Jews have to serve in the IDF as well?
__________________
My new attempt at fanfiction. After battling the entity known as Voldemort through the various Precincts of Death for over 80 years, there is a way out. HP/Abhorsen crossover. HP/HG main characters. Find out the rest inside. Reviews/ratings welcome and desired. DLP| FFN

Ongoing One Shot. The Keeper of the Alleyway. DLP
Riley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 01:42 PM   #19
Hashasheen
Totally Sirius
 
Hashasheen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bristol
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riley Poole View Post
As someone not from the local area, do the Orthodox Jews have to serve in the IDF as well?
The Ultra Orthodox and the Orthodox don't have to I believe. Something about their role as religious scholars exempting them back to the founding of the State of Israel. Some do serve in special units, I know that much. And of course, there's the Israeli equivalent of military chaplains...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashaya
Taure is more than enough woman for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Portus View Post
Mind giving a description of your gran, in particular without her bifocals and dentures?

This may sound odd, but goddamn, does she sound familiar.
Hashasheen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 01:44 PM   #20
Riley
Alchemist
 
Riley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On The Eastern Seaboard, USA
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,331
DLP Supporter Donor Star
So with the rise of Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox, is it becoming harder to field men and women in the IDF or is it not that noticeable of a growing population? (Sorry to derail thread)
__________________
My new attempt at fanfiction. After battling the entity known as Voldemort through the various Precincts of Death for over 80 years, there is a way out. HP/Abhorsen crossover. HP/HG main characters. Find out the rest inside. Reviews/ratings welcome and desired. DLP| FFN

Ongoing One Shot. The Keeper of the Alleyway. DLP
Riley is offline   Reply With Quote


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OneEyedMan Presents: DLP Mega Mix Murton Movies, Music and TV shows 140 07-14-2013 06:28 AM
Mega - Kim Dotcom Idiot Rocker Gaming and PC Discussion 0 01-19-2013 07:07 PM
ISRAEL SCAMS U.S. mike.90 Politics 3 05-31-2010 07:04 PM
Israel and the CNN Strategy Vir Politics 148 01-20-2009 10:23 PM
Israel Giovanni Politics 7 10-27-2007 01:07 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2005 - 2016 DLP Group. All rights reserved.
No personal intellectual property on this site may be used without the credit and express permission of the respective authors.