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Old 11-23-2016, 08:22 AM   #5641
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More news

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Donald Trump is poised to eliminate all climate change research conducted by Nasa as part of a crackdown on “politicized science”, his senior adviser on issues relating to the space agency has said.

Nasa’s Earth science division is set to be stripped of funding in favor of exploration of deep space, with the president-elect having set a goal during the campaign to explore the entire solar system by the end of the century.
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This would mean the elimination of Nasa’s world-renowned research into temperature, ice, clouds and other climate phenomena. Nasa’s network of satellites provide a wealth of information on climate change, with the Earth science division’s budget set to grow to $2bn next year. By comparison, space exploration has been scaled back somewhat, with a proposed budget of $2.8bn in 2017.

Bob Walker, a senior Trump campaign adviser, said there was no need for Nasa to do what he has previously described as “politically correct environmental monitoring”.
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“My guess is that it would be difficult to stop all ongoing Nasa programs but future programs should definitely be placed with other agencies. I believe that climate research is necessary but it has been heavily politicized, which has undermined a lot of the work that researchers have been doing. Mr Trump’s decisions will be based upon solid science, not politicized science.”
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Walker, however, claimed that doubt over the role of human activity in climate change “is a view shared by half the climatologists in the world. We need good science to tell us what the reality is and science could do that if politicians didn’t interfere with it.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...medium=twitter
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Old 11-23-2016, 09:59 AM   #5642
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Trump 2020-2024, A Strong Possibility

Why? Because he’s Reagan’s Evil Twin. To expand on that, Trump is a serious contender for 2020, barring extreme, unpredictable shifts in geopolitics (and no, his election wasn’t such a thing, the sudden big rise of populism was) or some serious structural reforms by the Democrats, from the bottom up, where they change their whole strategy to be effective opposition and try to seriously dispute positions on all levels, from city to state, and not focusing on the Executive and Federal positions.

http://wapo.st/2g32SJG
Reading this article I just realized something. It was there, for a time, but right now it just clicked.

Trump is a genius. Not in the usual sense of the world, of course. He isn’t an Einstein of politics. He is more akin to a savant, he could see and feel the political mood, and played right to it, despite whatever pundits and specialists claimed.

He's using the opposite tactic that got Obama in the White House. Instead of trying to appease everyone, he so radicalized his discourse, and only his discourse, that he (i) created a group of fanatics and (ii) latched the Republicans to his side by using their RINO tactics that the Tea Parties loved, now used in an economic sense instead of the religious one that they favoured. This, with his victory, had an effect of forcing his internal opponents to wither support him or face handing it over to the Democrats, which is today unthinkable to most Republicans, principles nonetheless. This was only possible thanks to the Republicans radicalization in recent years, I think, where they literally would latch on to anyone on their party ‘acceptable’ spectrum than Dems of any type.

In the other hand, he manipulated the media, that was never its biggest fan, tendency to demonize what it doesn’t like to actually hate him. Happily they answered in kind, creating such a vile figure, that literally everything that he does that doesn't end up in a nuclear war or close enough, will be seen as him improving/getting better/more sane, thus improving his image slowly, because of the low standards this same media created for him. This is an obvious generalization, and Trump is a man, there will be obvious relapses and moments of real anger, but the general message the media passed this election was ‘we don’t care about the other side’s views, and we’re wrong.’

Further the line there's also him letting the liberal parts of the media to demonize him to comical levels. They are literally treating him like Hitler. Everytime they attack him (in increasingly hyperbolic terms, literally everyday Mother Jones and WashPo release half a dozen articles solely about how Trump and his supporters are EVIL and WHITE RACISTS) they lose more and more credibility and importance as news source, in a similar process to Fox News descent into a strawman with Obama. They forego any pretence of impartial treatment or serious journalism. The media will always be partial, but a true news channel will try to equilibrate fact and opinion, where the facts are the central and the opinion just one part of the news.

That however, is him killing two birds with one stone. There’s a reason Fox News is the butt of many, many jokes despite being an immensely popular news channel with very good people there too. They were right this time, but it was more an incident than effort from them. They, like the media, used and were used by Trump, they were just blatant about it.

Trump’s whole genius is how his following ‘de-radicalization’ (that never existed) reaches out for the moderate and disgruntled Democrats, not unlike anti-drugs advertisements that made pot’s actual effects much much more worse and thus destroying its own credibility the moment it was tested in RL, so is this fear-mongering effect on moderates and the indecisive.

‘The FBI decided the election’! One year and a half of election. Very, very, very few people decided it in the last week.

Meanwhile Democrats kept dividing themselves thanks to increased identity politics and it's use to bring in voters, creating a party with wildly economic interests being united by social politics, which is falling apart because when you're poor, you have priorities apart from gay marriage or immigrants rights, like getting better prospects in life. Meanwhile the "political pure" will latch out at these peoples for their priorities, calling them "evil hateful people" which already happened in this election. Which is already happening. Slate is blaming ‘the white women’ for not voting with their vagina. Saloon too. They quote Susan Sarandon and think she’s out of touch with reality. She wasn’t.

There's also their, and the media, stupid stupid tendency to do ad hominem attacks on Trump and how hilariously ineffective they are. Reagan committed treason and waged an economic war on Blacks. He's still idolized by the right. It doesn't matter that Trump is racist or mysoginist or whatever. Not really. People know that and don't care. They don't give a fuck that his children will still do business or that he gt money from them. It. Doesn't. Matter. Trump knows that, so that's why he won't put a blind trust, a Kansas City shuffle, where once again the media will hyperfocus on that and not in, well, what electors actually care. He said he could shot someone in the Fifth Avenue and he wouldn’t lose any votes. People proved his point, not the statement, right, and that’s powerful symbolism for his whole campaign, in my opinion.

There's also the advantage he has when negotiating, he has very little to lose. He is the populist, he has the mass and the people who vote. The Republican ‘autopsy’ was a bust, their ‘big candidates’ were all busts. From Cruz, to Bush, to Jindal, to all really, all these names that have been preparing themselves for years, from very different spectrums and appeals, crushed, like they didn’t matter.

Republicans will have to back him up or not produce anything, or not do anything and get washed out in other elections. They know this. They are hostages of their ‘Nobama’ tactics. There’s no Nobama now. Now what? Will they wage war on the man who got them POTUS despite their repeated failures? Sanders did that to Clinton, for a while. That worked out great for the Dems. Sanders ‘revolution’ was an epic failure with no major candidate he backed winning.

Democrats are in the defensive, and there is a populist wave, they latching to their political purity will just as likely give them a fourth rout in a row. Unless they stop being so obsessed with the Executive and Federal cargos, but that's unlikely. Moderates Democrats actually got big wins, in states that Clinton lost even, but the party apparent decision to appeal to Sanders and Warren, and their bases, doesn’t bode well for its future.

At last, there's Trump's trump card. Negotiation. He stripped his plans of any political purity/ideology, they are just ridiculous over the top version of what he wants, but the stakes are so high on his side, now that he won, that him lowering himself from his hyperbolic proposals (who would frankly do more harm than good if actually applicated) that any compromise he reaches with the Democrats or Republicans will favour him almost always. A wall? Of course he isn’t building a Berlin Wall in thousands of kilometres. He doesn’t need to. He will build a face, increase frontier patrol numbers and budgets, give them more power, build fences in strategic are and everyone will pat themselves in the back for not letting him build a wall.

Or the Dems can, you know, go Tea Party. See how well Ted Cruz did. Where’s the Tea Party now? Swallowed by the Trump wave. They were useless except for a select group of people, not unlike the Ivory Tower Democrats from the coast and their liberal agenda.

These last days had been all about him sending mixed messages about most issues except one clear idea: I'm open to negotiation. And the other politicians will latch on that, if not Tea Partiers and etc, then Democrats. If one side ignores it, the other will take it and mold it to their way. He will be acting more like an Independent president really, but hasn't he? His distaste for the Republican party has been made clear plenty of times. By stripping politics of ideology, he made it about deal making, a business, more than anything, something he is certainly better at than most politicians.

Some of this is luck, a significant part is his ability to manipulate the media and the like, the rest is just the current political situation, where both sides lost a middle ground. This is a time of great disturbances and unpredictable changes, and Trump successfully rode the Tiger. As Evola created the metaphor, Trump allowed the population to ride the tiger, even if for a second, and turn all these destructives forces they so hate into an inner liberation, a defiance shout. Reality will crash down and they will be expelled sooner or later, but, when?

Reagan was faaar from the reason of why the USSR broke down, but he is still credited by a lot of people, left and right, while Bush Sr., effectively the acting President for Reagan’s last two years and the following President, is ignored in any regards, proving that is not just being in the right place at the right time, its about a talent to position himself just right, which Trump has. Until people allow him freedom to move, he will try to get into the most opportunistic position possible, principles, ideas, or compromises be damned.

Trump’s is still playing the media well, him hiding controversy with much less harmful controversy (him willing to work with Palestinians hiding by the Kushner comment was a classic maneuverer, crude but effective. That’s him tbh). Until both the media and Democrats are willing to play his game and focus on matters that gain little electoral traction while he ‘works’… The Dems already proved themselves to be resistant to a reform, even after three routs in sequence despite wildly stupid moves by the GOP, like the Budget Blocking crisis. The Dems don't need to do the impossible, just the painful, which Labour refused to do, which Brazil's Worker's Party refused to do. A serious self critque and reforms. Which GOP refused to do, allowing themselves to be taken over by Tea Partiers, which was doomed to fail sooner or later, and then Trump.

Edited to make it less of a ramble

Last edited by Invictus; 11-23-2016 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 11-23-2016, 10:10 AM   #5643
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Not sure if I believe everything you say. I sorta still prefer the more probable answer: That he speaks of rage and that resonates. Like many others in history.
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:11 PM   #5644
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No reason he can't have tapped into populist rage and have some unconventional political skills. Heck, I could see a case for saying that identifying the growing reactionary sentiment when it comes to globalisation and open borders, then figuring out how to tap that sentiment to win an election is just another example of Trump knowing how to do politics. The idea that Trump is nothing but a lucky idiot gets questionable when one looks at how he's gone from his candidacy being regarded as a joke to President-Elect.
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Old 11-23-2016, 01:41 PM   #5645
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Heck, I could see a case for saying that identifying the growing reactionary sentiment when it comes to globalisation and open borders, then figuring out how to tap that sentiment to win an election is just another example of Kellyanne Conway knowing how to do politics.

Fixed that for you.
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Old 11-23-2016, 02:22 PM   #5646
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Speaking as someone in the military, seeing Mad Dog Mattis as SecDef after he got passed over for Commandant would be goddamn incredible. He's a general that was universally liked by the enlisted core, which anyone with any military experience can tell you is rarer than walking in on Bigfoot fucking a unicorn.

Seeing him standing in as a buffer between the service and our new CINC would go a lot towards easing my mind. I wouldn't be as afraid of some new war if I knew motherfucking Chaos Actual was at the reins from day one.
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Old 11-23-2016, 06:43 PM   #5647
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Beautiful stuff, @Invictus. Not sure I'm all the way there with you but still.

Your observation of "savantness" resonates with the "bestial sense to follow the path of power" (noted in Who Goes Nazi) and a prior observation about the importance of positioning to come clean of his business... failures. Now whether you want to include that into your picture of a "lucky idiot," which I largely do... (isn't that essentially what a savant is? a man drawn pitiably and involuntarily into a state of nature, his will be damned).

He doesn't have to think. He maneuvers by feels. We've seen this over and over, wherever Trump comes up against a situation and decides to wing it, "Planning... is bad luck." (His campaign, his rallies, his debates... his businesses --- wtf does a real estate developer know about higher education and running steakhouses?)

May we live in interesting times.




So we have Betsy DeVos as Education Secretary. Married to the Amway heir, sister to Erik Prince of Blackwater USA, and billionaire advocate for unregulated charter schools.

And Jonathan Gray declined Treasury. Back to Mnuchin as default.

This is funny: Jill Stein is in the house.

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Old 11-23-2016, 07:14 PM   #5648
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Old 11-23-2016, 07:14 PM   #5649
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Thanks. Got threatened with a ban for posting that on SV (sufficientvelocity), so I guess I'm doing something right, at least according to Churchill. This coming from a site where they removed the Funny rating because people were hurt that their super serious comments were getting such rating.
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Old 11-23-2016, 07:30 PM   #5650
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I subscribe to the notion that he spoke to the economically downtrodden and also had a shit ton of luck.

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Old 11-23-2016, 08:10 PM   #5651
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I'm not convinced that there are 50,000 votes to shift. That's not tiny by any means, though I'd obviously be delighted if that were the case.

I mean as disappointed as I am in this election, I've never doubted its fundamental legitimacy.
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Old 11-23-2016, 08:24 PM   #5652
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Nor I, really. There are no doubt some small discrepancies of the usual kind, but I'm not holding my breath.

But the thought of Jill Stein as the stalwart for electoral integrity... not the hero they wanted but the hero they need...
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Old 11-23-2016, 08:27 PM   #5653
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Après nous le déluge is pretty much the politician's motto, but if I have seen a more striking (or potentially catastrophic) example of it, pretty much ever, I honestly can't recall. Also, 97 % or whatever the ludicrously high number is of scientists agreeing on this is obviously a global shadowy cabal trying to TAKE ARE FREDUMZ to... I don't know? Spin donuts in your oversized SUV?

At least they didn't go with the creationist for the DoE, unless DeVos is also one?
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Old 11-23-2016, 10:51 PM   #5654
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Fixed that for you.
I'll certainly give her credit, but Trump did win the primary before she became his campaign manager so it obviously wasn't all her.
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Old 11-24-2016, 01:08 AM   #5655
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Beautiful stuff, @Invictus. Not sure I'm all the way there with you but still.

Your observation of "savantness" resonates with the "bestial sense to follow the path of power" (noted in Who Goes Nazi) and a prior observation about the importance of positioning to come clean of his business... failures. Now whether you want to include that into your picture of a "lucky idiot," which I largely do... (isn't that essentially what a savant is? a man drawn pitiably and involuntarily into a state of nature, his will be damned).

He doesn't have to think. He maneuvers by feels. We've seen this over and over, wherever Trump comes up against a situation and decides to wing it, "Planning... is bad luck." (His campaign, his rallies, his debates... his businesses --- wtf does a real estate developer know about higher education and running steakhouses?)

May we live in interesting times.
Well, I'm not sure if my previous posts in this thread have indicated this at all, but I'm really not a fan of the guy - I know, shocking, I've been so moderate until now - but I think this is being more than a little unfair to him. Even if you're right about the way he works, intuition strong enough to win a presidential election is, frankly, not only indistinguishable from calculating intelligence, but arguably superior to it. Conscious thought is a few orders of magnitude slower than that sort of instinct and an actual savant with functional social skills as good as his would be frighteningly intelligent.

But no, it does not do anyone any good to decide that he's just an idiot who got lucky, or that he's some sort of savant. Underestimating your opponent is a great way to get blindsided a second time.

He's a smart person who realized the same thing the Tea Party did back in the day. That the Republican Leadership and its base have absolutely nothing in common, and anyone who could come in and actually take the Republican party line to its natural conclusions could out-compete the rest of the party blindfolded. So he played a role, and people loved the role, and the rest of us were stuck standing with our dicks in our hands when it turned out that, yes, that was exactly what people apparently wanted.

The Party was shouting "The Visigoths are at the gates, we stand at the edge of oblivion, let's cut government spending!" Most of its voters only really gave a shit about the first half, so he just followed it up with something that actually made sense if you accept the first half as true. "The Visigoths are at the gates, we stand at the edge of oblivion, let's build a wall and round up all the Visigoths!" He appealed to the actual interests of the the party's main voters instead of trying to convince them of the idea that Corporate Tax breaks would somehow improve their lives in a meaningful way.

Donald Trump's character is, essentially, an intellectually honest Republican. A lot of people could have stepped in and played that part, but it's hard to imagine someone with less experience fucking with the media actually managing to pull it off without immediately getting shut down by the controversy. Dancing through controversy like that takes skill whether it's some inherent social savantism I'm not totally convinced can exist or actual analytical intellect, but either way, he managed to win the presidency with no experience and the shadiest possible history, so, maybe we should all lay off on calling him an idiot? Impulsive, dangerous - sure - but idiots can be disregarded. We all saw how well thinking that way worked for us.

EDIT: Oh, also:
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Après nous le déluge is pretty much the politician's motto, but if I have seen a more striking (or potentially catastrophic) example of it, pretty much ever
In addition to potentially catastrophic, can anyone actually think of a time where it's been literal before now?

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Old 11-24-2016, 08:03 AM   #5656
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Speaking as someone in the military, seeing Mad Dog Mattis as SecDef after he got passed over for Commandant would be goddamn incredible. He's a general that was universally liked by the enlisted core, which anyone with any military experience can tell you is rarer than walking in on Bigfoot fucking a unicorn.

Seeing him standing in as a buffer between the service and our new CINC would go a lot towards easing my mind. I wouldn't be as afraid of some new war if I knew motherfucking Chaos Actual was at the reins from day one.
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Old 11-24-2016, 03:53 PM   #5657
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In addition to potentially catastrophic, can anyone actually think of a time where it's been literal before now?
I'm sure you can dig up examples of politicians (local or national) failing with regards to floodplain / river management and have that count.
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Old 11-24-2016, 03:56 PM   #5658
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http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechc...in-the-suburbs

This is a highly fascinating read that I thoroughly enjoyed myself, it's about an interview with one of people behind fake news sites and the reasons and motives behind it. Honestly though I wish the journalists would have went a little deeper into it by the time I finished it.
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Old 11-24-2016, 06:46 PM   #5659
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Après nous le déluge is pretty much the politician's motto, but if I have seen a more striking (or potentially catastrophic) example of it, pretty much ever, I honestly can't recall. Also, 97 % or whatever the ludicrously high number is of scientists agreeing on this is obviously a global shadowy cabal trying to TAKE ARE FREDUMZ to... I don't know? Spin donuts in your oversized SUV?

At least they didn't go with the creationist for the DoE, unless DeVos is also one?
I just found it ironic and funny for a Trump adviser to say something like this while basically denying and cutting resources regarding climate change:

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We need good science to tell us what the reality is and science could do that if politicians didn’t interfere with it
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Ideological purity, compromise as weakness, a fundamentalist belief in scriptural literalism, denying science, unmoved by facts, undeterred by new information, a hostile fear of progress, a demonization of education, a need to control women's bodies, severe xenophobia, tribal mentality, intolerance of dissent, pathological hatred of US government.

They can call themselves the Tea Party. They can call themselves conservatives. They can even call themselves Republicans, though Republicans certainly shouldn't. But we should call them what they are: The American Taliban.
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Old 11-25-2016, 04:50 AM   #5660
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Invictus, I think you've overestimating Trump's genius and also overestimating the extent to which he represents some giant change in the makeup of the electorate. Recall that he still lost the popular vote. Recall that he still received fewer votes than did McCain and Romney against Obama. The electorate hasn't swung massively against the Democrats, they just lost a few swing areas with a bad candidate. Trump didn't win, Hillary lost.
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