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Old 02-24-2016, 06:10 PM   #41
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I pay for the NHS as an international student, so that's not quite right.
But you're not from the EU

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In relation to EU migrants getting benefits, I don't believe that that's actually a problem in the UK, but if it was, surely you could just have a seperate law for migrants mandating they put in first to get later like the remainder of the EU does? British benefits for British citizens, EU benefits for EU citizens and all that?
This would be illegal under EU law. The fundamental principle underlying almost all EU law is that of non-discrimination between member states.
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Old 02-25-2016, 07:50 AM   #42
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Not unless the UK economy radically transforms in the next few decades away from a "home ownership" economy to a "renting" economy. Everyone seems to forget that the UK was originally supposed to join the Euro, but the attempt caused an economic crash and a recession. The opt-out wasn't planned, it was a recognition of economic reality.
Uh... huh? You got any sources on that?

I get that it might be important for a mortgage based market to be able to freely adjust their rates, but the rest? As far as I know GB has never really attempted to join the Euro (five tests, etc).

Also, I don't share your all-or-nothing approach to EU/EZ membership. Yes, there is a danger that the EZ countries may use their dominant position to the detriment of non-EZ countries, but I don't think that means leaving it all behind is a necessary consequence.
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Old 02-25-2016, 03:33 PM   #43
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Uh... huh? You got any sources on that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday

Gordon Brown's five tests came much later - they were about whether the UK would attempt to join the Euro after the Euro had already launched. But before the Euro launched, the ERM existed as a precursor mechanism to pave the way for the Euro and the UK was a member of that.
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Old 02-26-2016, 05:49 AM   #44
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Ah, thanks. I remember hearing about Soros' moneymaking success, but I hadn't realised that it was linked to the 'fixed' exchange rate. It certainly paints the picture that Britain shouldn't join the EU, although Italy too had problems and seems to have survived joining the EZ.
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Old 03-10-2016, 01:01 PM   #45
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They have dragged the Queen in this

This will affect peoples opinions on the EU as she is well respected all over the world, either way this is going to cause a big stink.
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Old 03-10-2016, 04:21 PM   #46
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They have dragged the Queen in this

This will affect peoples opinions on the EU as she is well respected all over the world, either way this is going to cause a big stink.
It's also from the Sun. Not really a reliable newspaper.
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Old 03-10-2016, 10:28 PM   #47
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It's also from the Sun. Not really a reliable newspaper.
Its funny you say that because the Sun went to great lengths to state that it had two very dependable independant sources quoting her. It clearly knows its own reputation, so I wonder how valid this must be.
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Old 03-11-2016, 08:52 AM   #48
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To be honest, I'm not particularly surprised that the monarch of a country who lived through World War II is against an 'ever closer union' with the nations her country fought against. On the other hand, Prince William has hinted that he's pro-Union, so it's not as though the entire monarchy is behind leaving.
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Old 03-11-2016, 07:41 PM   #49
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The Crown has categorically denied she said what they claim, and I'm more inclined to believe them than the Sun.
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Old 03-11-2016, 08:33 PM   #50
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It's also hardly a mutually exclusive thing - as much as various people would like it to be because easy grouping - to hold both a dislike of the current unruly toddlers (and the odd utterly ineffective teacher) that make up the EU and a generally positive/neutral stance towards European cooperation. (And a possible skeptic eye towards the increased cooperation of the past years.) It might well be that there's a somewhat substantial portion of the electorate that reasons along the lines of 'The UK serves as a valuable counterweight to continental Europe in the EU, and voting to get out is only going to end up biting us twice over' come the referendum.

Also, with @Darth_Revan on The Sun's reliability. They beat out the Daily Mail, but literally anything beats the DM, so that's not exactly a compliment.
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:44 PM   #51
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The Crown has categorically denied she said what they claim, and I'm more inclined to believe them than the Sun.
You can't really take that as fact any more than the Sun's claim. The Monarchy has traditionally been apolitical and their public relations department have been very assiduous in making sure that any gaffes like this are swept under the carpet.

That said, I put as much weight behind the Sun's journalistic ethics as I do Trump's campaign promises. I suppose I should have said that I could believe it, rather than assuming the article as fact.
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Old 03-12-2016, 03:56 AM   #52
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You can't really take that as fact any more than the Sun's claim. The Monarchy has traditionally been apolitical and their public relations department have been very assiduous in making sure that any gaffes like this are swept under the carpet.

That said, I put as much weight behind the Sun's journalistic ethics as I do Trump's campaign promises. I suppose I should have said that I could believe it, rather than assuming the article as fact.
In other words, it's possible that Elizabeth Windsor might have opinion on the matter, but Queen Elizabeth II most certainly does not?
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Old 03-12-2016, 04:36 AM   #53
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In other words, it's possible that Elizabeth Windsor might have opinion on the matter, but Queen Elizabeth II most certainly does not?
Exactly my point. The person who is the Queen has opinions, but the Monarchy doesn't.
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Old 03-12-2016, 07:26 PM   #54
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The Crown has categorically denied she said what they claim, and I'm more inclined to believe them than the Sun.
I fully believed it was utter nonsense until Nick Clegg mentioned he had "no recollection" of it happening. Which kind of seems like the kind of weasel words that mean "it happened".

The queens opinion doesnt matter too much, but the weaponisation of the monarchy does. Gove has a lot to answer for. Its really pretty unacceptable.
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Old 03-31-2016, 08:46 PM   #55
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Exclusive: Royal family considers jumping aboard the Stay campaign, because they can't stand Leavers' faces:

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Another well-connected source explained that the royals now see a tightening conspiracy between the pro-exit papers, notably the Sun, Telegraph and Mail, and certain politicians. “The leader of Vote Leave is Michael Gove – that awful little leaker who put it about that the Queen wanted out. They can’t stand him. And as for Boris, the other main outer – he’s a cycling maniac from Islington. All he has done for the royal family is make it difficult to get around London in a decent-sized Daimler. And the third of the trio – Farage – what another awful little man.”
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Old 04-01-2016, 07:20 AM   #56
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I've read this earlier today... would it matter? I'd think that Brexiters are probably people that want proud traditional UK to stand alone in defiance of socialistic Europe... aren't they kind of people likely to care what the Queen has to say?
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Old 04-01-2016, 07:59 AM   #57
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... it's not a real article. Check the date.
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Old 04-01-2016, 10:09 AM   #58
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Oh, I should have guessed that, bits like that: " “He admires what Tsipras and Varoufakis achieved – in fact he told friends he sees something of his younger self in the charismatic, motorbike-riding, eye-for-the-ladies Varoufakis. Mind you,” added the source, “he also thinks the Greeks would never have got into this mess if the colonels had still been in power.” " were just too funny
Here in Poland every political joke today looks believable, because our politics turned to one big (and sad) joke lately...
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:48 AM   #59
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I find it quite said that both sides of the debate have resorted to fearmongering to garner support, instead of engaging in rational discourse, supported by independent studies and statistics. But, I guess, fear sells. It always has.

That being said, I've yet to encounter a convincing argument as to why we should actually leave.

My opinion doesn't really matter, since I fall just a few months shy of being able to vote in the referendum, but I would like to see proper discussion somewhere along the lines of what the Scots did last year, rather than the clownfiesta that it currently is.
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Old 04-09-2016, 11:01 AM   #60
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The Scottish referendum was one big fearmongering clusterfuck as well. Neither side actually bothered with more than a superficial attempt at real debate. The National parties have taken note of what strategies worked to gain support, and are doing the old rinse and repeat.
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