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Old 01-02-2017, 05:13 AM   #1
BTT
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Week 10: Goblet of Fire, Ch. 20 - 28

New thread for a New Year.
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Old 01-02-2017, 09:45 AM   #2
Atram Noctem
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Quote:
"And then we've been trying to persuade the Transylvanians to sign the International Ban on Dueling."
This is interesting, considering that Hogwarts had a dueling club two years earlier, and that some wizards seem to engage in spontaneous 'duels' as their equivalent to a fist fight. Perhaps the ban is only on official dueling, as a sport, or as a lawful mean to resolve conflicts.
Quote:
"Crouch's own son was caught with a group of Death Eaters who'd managed to talk their way out of Azkaban."
This fact is often overlooked. The Lestranges DID deny Voldemort at first to avoid imprisonment. Sure, it was in order to search for Voldemort, but it still diminishes Bellatrix's fanatic loyalty somewhat. Voldemort later talks disapprovingly about those who denied they were ever in his service, but talks about the Lestranges oppositely - perhaps he wasn't aware of this fact.

Also, it's really strange that Harry, Ron and Hermione spent days upon days in the library looking for ways to breath underwater, yet haven't encountered the Bubble-Head charm. Or that there doesn't seem to be any book that advices how to fight dragons, or lists their weaknesses. I know Rowling did it for the sake of tension and having Crouch!Moody help Harry, but I think it's bad writing.
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Old 01-02-2017, 12:04 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by page 213
“Let’s try some simple spellbooks, then,” said Harry, throwing aside Men Who Love Dragons Too Much.
Intriguing title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 214
This gave Harry an idea. Pausing at a distance from them, he pulled out his wand, and took careful aim.
Harry's a sneaky little shit sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 217
I’m not really in trouble until I see the whites of their eyes. That’s when I open my trunk.
Presumably this is to take Real Moody as a hostage for his escape.

I really want to know what the pointers Bagman would've given Harry about the tasks would've been.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 229
“Congratulations, Harry!” she said, beaming at him. “I wonder if you could give me a quick word? How you felt facing that dragon? How you feel now, about the fairness of the scoring?”
“Yeah, you can have a word,” said Harry savagely. “Good-bye.”
And he set off back to the castle with Ron.
Savagely is right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 231
“It was someone being tortured!” said Neville, who had gone very white and spilled sausage rolls
all over the floor. “You’re going to have to fight the Cruciatus Curse!”
“Don’t be a prat, Neville, that’s illegal,”
Y'know, George, I think he knows that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 232
Just then, Neville caused a slight diversion by turning into a large canary.
"a slight diversion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 246
A curly-haired third-year Hufflepuff girl to whom Harry had never spoken in his life asked him to go to the ball with her the very next day. Harry was so taken aback he said no before he’d even stopped to consider the matter. The girl walked off looking rather hurt, and Harry had to endure Dean’s, Seamus’s, and Ron’s taunts about her all through History of Magic. The following day, two more girls asked him, a second year and (to his horror) a fifth year who looked as though she might knock him out if he refused.
I'd forgotten Harry was asked to the Yule Ball by a bunch of chicks. And then he still manages to cock it all up, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 248
Snape, of course, would no sooner let them play games in class than adopt Harry.
Add fans of Snape-adopts-Harry fics to the BTFO list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 260
Sirius, a handy penknife with attachments to unlock any lock and undo any knot;
Still weird this never comes into play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 266
“Oh - but - this is a really good one!” Parvati said as the Weird Sisters struck up a new song, which was much faster.
“No, I don’t like it,” Harry lied
Goddamnit, Harry.

You know, I somehow forgot being half-Giant was considered to be A Bad Thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 279
Parvati had been very cool toward Harry since the ball. He supposed that he ought to have paid her a bit more attention, but she seemed to have had a good time all the same. She was certainly telling anybody who would listen that she had made arrangements to meet the boy from Beauxbatons in Hogsmeade on the next weekend trip.
Goddamnit, Harry!

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 288
“My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practicing inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide?
No, he did not! He held his head high and went about his business as usual! Of course, I’m not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been bravery…”
Dumbledore, proud Archbishop of Banterbury.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 288
Died, see, in me second year…
I wonder what the cause of death was. Did he try and go see the mother of his son?

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 289
I’m not botherin’ with her no more, I promise yeh that. Big bones… I’ll give her big bones.
I bet you will, Hagrid. I bet you will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 293
“Well, thats what Diggory thought,” she said. “He lay there talking to himself for ages about it. Ages and ages… nearly all the bubbles had gone…
Damn is she thirsty. Understandable, though, I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 302
“Oh if there’s one thing I hate,” he muttered, more to himself than to Harry, and his magical eye was fixed on the left-hand corner of the map, “its a Death Eater who walked free…”
Harry stared at him. Could Moody possibly mean what Harry thought he meant?
No, Harry. I don't think he does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 308
There’s nothing. Nothing. Closest was that thing to dry up puddles and ponds, that Drought Charm, but that was nowhere near powerful enough to drain the lake.
This implies charms have a default power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoF
not one mention of underwater exploits in An Anthology of Eighteenth Century Charms, or in Dreadful Denizens of the Deep, or Powers You Never Knew You Had and What to Do with Them Now You’ve Wised Up.
Man, that last one. And people said that was a fanon cliché.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 324
Love Potions are, of course, banned at Hogwarts
I remember a lot of people claiming they aren't banned. Absolute bullshit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 336
Rosier and Wilkes - they were both killed by Aurors the year before Voldemort fell. The Lestranges - they’re a married couple - they’re in Azkaban. Avery – from what I’ve heard he wormed his way out of trouble by saying he’d been acting under the Imperius Curse - he’s still at large
Wilkes is the most unpopular Death Eater. Poor guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 336
“He showed Snape something on his arm?” said Sirius, looking frankly bewildered.
How come Sirius doesn't know about the Dark Mark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoF
Hermione hung back in their next Defense Against the Dark Arts lesson to ask Professor Moody something. The rest of the class was very eager to leave; Moody had given them such a rigorous test of hex deflection that many of them were nursing small injuries.
Like CoS confirmed, deflecting hexes is a thing. Does this mean parrying like depicted in many a fanfic? How does it work? We don't really know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 349
Fleur beamed at Harry as he came nearer. Her attitude toward him had changed completely since he had saved her sister from the lake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by page 351
But something moved behind Krum in the trees, and Harry, who had some experience of the sort of thing that lurked in the forest, instinctively grabbed Krum’s arm and pulled him around.
Something about this really screams badass to me. Also, I forgot this whole bit was there at all. Shame on me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by page 358
“I’ll be havin’ a few words with her, an’ all,” said Hagrid grimly, stomping up the stairs. “The less you lot ’ave ter do with these foreigners, the happier yeh’ll be. Yeh can trust any of ’em.”
Rubeus Hagrid, proud voter of UKIP.

Considering everything Crookshanks accomplished last year, the fuck is he doing now? Why isn't he all up in fake Moody's grill?
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Old 01-02-2017, 02:57 PM   #4
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Still weird this never comes into play.

Didn't Harry try to unlock a door in the Department of Mysteries with it? (and melted it in the process)
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Nothing to write home about, but if you aren't bothered by it being German and the first two chapters being quite unrealistic, it might be something for you.
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Old 01-02-2017, 03:48 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Dicra View Post
Didn't Harry try to unlock a door in the Department of Mysteries with it? (and melted it in the process)
Yeah, and I feel like Harry has used it for one or two insignificant tasks during book 5 but it's been ages since I read it and I'm waiting for my finals to end before I join.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumbledore
Of course, I’m not entirely sure [Aberforth] can read, so that may not have been bravery…
Didn't realize feelings still ran this high between those two. Aberforth talking like this, sure, but this is pretty vicious coming from Albus. I mean, you'd think after 94 years... Anyway.

Also, I was kind of hoping for the final section of GoF to be last week, so we could coincide Voldemort's resurrection with his birthday. I suppose it would be a tall order to make the schedule coincide with 3 different dates though.
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:15 PM   #6
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Chapter 21: The House-Elf Liberation Front

Quote:
'But if I'd dropped dead every time she's told me I'm going to, I'd be a medical miracle.'
Well, in fairness to her, you are, Harry.

Quote:
At least we didn't get any homework. I hope Hermione got loads off Professor Vector, I love not working when she is...'
So...90% of your time then?

Chapter 22: The Unexpected Task

Quote:
Lavender Brown let out a shrill giggle. Parvati Patil nudged her hard in the ribs, her face working furiously as she, too, fought not to giggle. They both looked at Harry.
I wonder if they're hoping that Harry will invite one of them (note that Lavender goes to the Ball with Seamus in the end), or whether they're shippers on deck for Harry/[insert Gryffindor here]?

Quote:
Snape, of course, would no sooner let them play games in class than adopt Harry
As @BTT points out above, one of the pleasures of this re-read is seeing how many fanfiction cliches get thoroughly and explicitly debunked.

Quote:
He found it hard to concentrate in Snape's Antidote test, and consequently forgot to add the key ingredient - a bezoar -meaning that he received bottom marks.
First, a handy reminder in preparation for HBP, but second - and this may be my ignorance of the science of antidotes here - but what's the point in brewing a (presumably at least fairly) complicated antidote if the key ingredient of it can already cure basically any poison?

Chapter 23: The Yule Ball

Quote:
'Someone attacking you, Harry?' Seamus asked sleepily.
Not that it's a big deal or anything. Just one of those things you have to get used to when you sleep near the Boy-Who-Lived.

Quote:
'I still can't work out how you two got the best-looking girls in the year,' muttered Dean.
Because nobody else asked them, presumably - unless we're thinking they were secretly pining for Harry and Ron, and didn't have the guts to ask them themselves.

Quote:
'Oh, I would never dream of assuming that I know all of Hogwarts' secrets, Igor,'
Like the Chamber of Secrets, for example.

Quote:
'He is so creepy!' Parvati whispered, as Moody clunked away. 'I don't think that eye should be allowed!'
Played for laughs though it is, this is actually a pretty good point. If Moody's eye can see through clothes to the socks beneath, then presumably Hogwarts is just a walking underwear catalogue to him. Although presumably, this means he also sees people like Snape, McGonagall, Pince, Filch... in their underwear. Some might say that's penance enough.

Quote:
'Oh, never mind,' snapped Parvati, and she went off with the boy from Beauxbatons. When the song ended, she did not return.
I get that Harry is not the greatest date in the world, but this seems a bit harsh on reflection. They seemed to have a nice enough time while they were eating, then the opening dance is fine, then...they sit down, and a few minutes later she abandons him for the night?

Quote:
'Are you going to ask me to dance at all?' Padma asked him.
'No,' said Ron, still glaring at Hermione.
Ron, though, is just straight up awful at this shit. A man after my own heart...

Quote:
if it had been possible he would have put his fingers in his ears and hummed loudly
If only he knew 'Muffliato'!

Quote:
he somehow thought Hermione had got the point much better than Ron had.
As per bloody usual.

Chapter 24: Rita Skeeter's Scoop

Quote:
All of them looked gleeful, and none of them looked surprised to see Professor Grubbly-Plank
While this is obviously at least partially to do with the article in the Prophet - seriously, does no-one else in the school read the only national newspaper? Not one of them? - it does also conjure up the image of Snape sitting down with the Slytherins' for tea and gossip.

Quote:
'What about him?' said Parvati, in a hard voice. 'He can still be gamekeeper, can't he?'
Can he, though? Given the bigotry about giants, if the Ministry had decided he was really dangerous, could Dumbledore have saved him? Another potentially interesting jump-off point for a Dark!Harry fic, or at least a severely anti-Ministry Harry.

Quote:
Dumbledore talking about Aberforth
@Hakairyu: In complete agreement with you here. This reads unbelievably harshly given what we find out later - more importantly, it doesn't seem to fit with the guilt-racked Albus we see discussing it later. Retcon, or just odd disguising of his true feelings?

Quote:
'Died, see, in my second year...'
So where did Hagrid go in the holidays? Surely he couldn't have been the gamekeeper while he was still a student?
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:02 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Atram Noctem View Post
Also, it's really strange that Harry, Ron and Hermione spent days upon days in the library looking for ways to breath underwater, yet haven't encountered the Bubble-Head charm. Or that there doesn't seem to be any book that advices how to fight dragons, or lists their weaknesses. I know Rowling did it for the sake of tension and having Crouch!Moody help Harry, but I think it's bad writing.
Maybe the're just bad at looking things up. I mean,

Quote:
not one mention of underwater exploits in An Anthology of Eighteenth Century Charms, or in Dreadful Denizens of the Deep, or Powers You Never Knew You Had and What to Do with Them Now You’ve Wised Up.
That looks like stray internet browsing. Meanwhile the Bubblehead charm might be standard sixth year repertoire.
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:21 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by someone010101 View Post
Maybe the're just bad at looking things up. I mean,



That looks like stray internet browsing. Meanwhile the Bubblehead charm might be standard sixth year repertoire.
The second point is potentially valid, although they are explicitly looking at charms, but Hermione's whole thing is research, and when they put their mind to it Ron and Harry aren't bad either - remember all the esoteric stuff they dragged up when researching Buckbeak's appeal in PoA? This is a pretty obvious case of Rowling not giving them access to knowledge for plot reasons, which is fine, but still a little lazy. In fairness, it's more obvious given how apparently ubiquitous the Bubble Head charm is in OotP - for all we know at this stage, it *is* a really obscure charm that they couldn't be expected to find.

Chapter 25: The Egg and the Eye

Quote:
Harry planned his excursion carefully
For the first and last time in his career.

Quote:
His immediate reaction was that it would be worth becoming a Prefect just to be able to use this bathroom.
I wonder what Ron thought of literally the nicest room he ever goes into during the books?

Quote:
Harry pulled out his wand and struggled to touch the Marauder's Map, to wipe it blank, but it was too far away to reach -
You just spent an entire chapter learning the Summoning charm, you moron!

Quote:
'Ah, I see,' said Moody softly. 'Got Potter's best interests at heart, have you?'
This takes on a delicious extra meaning once you learn that Moody is Crouch.

Quote:
And Moody thought he, Harry, ought to be an Auror? Interesting idea...he somehow thought he'd like to check how scarred the rest of them were, before he chose it as a career.
Judging by the other Aurors we see in canon, rather less than Harry is by the time he's finished school.

Chapter 26: The Second Task

Quote:
'Of course, the ideal solution would be for you to Transfigure yourself into a submarine or something'
A submarine? What, with arms? This is an unusually impractical idea coming from Hermione.

Quote:
Why had he ever let his mind wander in class - what if a teacher had once mentioned how to breath underwater?
Then Hermione would know. Come on, Harry, keep up.

Quote:
Hermione as Krum's most important person
Given that the second task is only the second time we ever see them interact, and no other occasion has been mentioned between the Ball and the task, this does raise the question of how she's become so important to him. Either he falls really hard for an under-age girl, or he's got no real friends or family anywhere else (that he cares about, at least)

Quote:
Harry swirled around, staring about. Something sharp...anything...
There's this useful spell you used earlier in the book, Harry - Diffindo? You could at least try it and see if it would work, as I do appreciate that other spells have gone a little wonky underwater.

Quote:
Merchieftainess Murcus has told us exactly what happened at the bottom of the lake
So none of the judges or spectators could actually see anything that was happening?

Chapter 27: Padfoot Returns

Quote:
Rosier, Wilkes, the Lestranges, Avery
Snape's future Death Eater pals while he was at Hogwarts. No mention of Lucius, in contradiction to most fanon (including mine, I have to admit).

Quote:
I just can't see him letting Snape teach at Hogwarts if he'd ever worked for Voldemort
Erm...moving on.

Chapter 28: The Madness of Mr Crouch

Quote:
'Fleur keeps going on about underground tunnels
So at least two of the Champions are bonding outside the tasks. Good for them!

Quote:
[Crouch] looked as if he'd been traveling for days. The knees of his robes were ripped and bloody; his face scratched; he was unshaven and grey with exhaustion.
Given that he's been under the Imperius for most of the last twelve months, and it seems unlikely that Wormtail was taking proper care of him, you've got to give the man props for badassery.

Quote:
In one swift movement, Hagrid seized the front of Karkaroff's furs, lifted him into the air, and slammed him against a nearby tree.
'Apologise!' Hagrid snarled, as Karkaroff gasped for breath, Hagrid's massive fist at his throat, his feet dangling in mid-air.
Fuck. Yeah.
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:01 PM   #9
Atram Noctem
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How come Sirius doesn't know about the Dark Mark?
It's another small fact that fanon neglects. The Death Eaters being tattooed with the Dark Mark wasn't general knowledge, Snape actually explains it to Fudge at the end of the book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinysavage View Post
Snape's future Death Eater pals while he was at Hogwarts. No mention of Lucius, in contradiction to most fanon (including mine, I have to admit).
Lucius was 41 in OotP, while Snape was 35(?), so they didn't have too much time to bond, IIRC in DH Harry sees young Lucius welcoming Snape to the Slytherin table, in the pensieve memory. According to the Black family tree, Bellatrix was born in 1951, a good 10 years before Snape, so unless Sirius doesn't count her in "The Lestranges", it's also pretty odd. And Snape didn't seem to have friends in the OotP pensieve memory. Just more inconsistency from Rowling.
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:11 PM   #10
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It's another small fact that fanon neglects. The Death Eaters being tattooed with the Dark Mark wasn't general knowledge, Snape actually explains it to Fudge at the end of the book.
It's weird, though. Sirius was part of a group that fought against the Death Eaters. If anyone would know about it, wouldn't it be them, especially considering they actually had a spy?
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Old 01-04-2017, 03:26 PM   #11
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It's weird, though. Sirius was part of a group that fought against the Death Eaters. If anyone would know about it, wouldn't it be them, especially considering they actually had a spy?
They didn't have a spy that I recall until Snape, which wouldn't have been all that long before Sirius was imprisoned. And given that there was suspicion that there was a spy in the Order, Snape's status probably wouldn't have been widely known (especially to the group that hated him already). It does seem weird that the Dark Mark wasn't common knowledge to those actively fighting the Death Eaters though.
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Old 01-31-2017, 05:37 PM   #12
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Right, time to get back into this.

Chapter 30: The Pensieve

Quote:
'I didn't see Madame Maxime anywhere though, and she'd have a job hiding, wouldn't she?'
Brutal.

Quote:
Harry sticking his head in the Pensieve despite "nearly four years' experience of the magical world [telling] him that sticking his hand into a bowl full of some unknown substance was a very stupid thing to do."
I can only assume that, were he to attempt it, Harry's animagus form would be a cat. And his curiosity would kill him.

Quote:
And that, in Harry's opinion, settled the matter. Dumbledore wouldn't ignore him like that.
You'll be singing a different tune in about three, four months, Harry...

Quote:
'Er,' he said, 'Mr Bagman...'
'...has never been accused of any Dark activity since,' said Dumbledore calmly.
'Right,' said Harry hastily...
'No more has Professor Snape.'
Not by any legal authority, perhaps.

Chapter 31: The Third Task

Quote:
Harry wobbled around the room for ten minutes afterwards before she had looked up the counter-jinx.
A: I seriously doubt that Hermione wouldn't have researched the counter-jinx prior to casting a spell on her friend.
B: Even if she hadn't, I doubt it would take her ten minutes to look it up.
Conclusion? She's getting some sort of sick enjoyment out of seeing him squirm.

Quote:
There was a loud crack, and the shape-shifter exploded
I'm still pissed we never see how Harry makes a Dementor amusing.

Quote:
Krum surely couldn't have wanted the Cup that badly...
Which raises the related point: how was Crouch intending to cover this up? It's a shoddy move, given his cunning throughout the rest of the book.

Quote:
the giant spider
A normal spider, enlarged? An Acromantula? Or some other variety of magical beast?

Quote:
Let's just take it together.
An understated example of Harry's desire to do the right thing leading to someone else getting hurt/killed.

Chapter 33: The Death Eaters

Quote:
He didn't like magic, my father...
Well no. He wouldn't.

Quote:
He left her and returned to his Muggle parents before I was even born
Do we think that Voldemort knows the (probable) truth about his parents relationship, and just doesn't care/is too blinded by hatred to acknowledge it, or does he genuinely think that his father just walked out because he hated magic?

Quote:
'May your loyalty never waver again, Wormtail,' said Voldemort.
'No, my Lord...never, my Lord...'
Heh.

Quote:
Every spell which might have helped me required the use of a wand
Rowling has confirmed that wandless magic is a thing, and that Voldemort can use it. This then indicates that wandless magic is not simply casting magic without using a wand, but has its own limitations, rules and spells. Or it's a shameless retcon.

Quote:
I returned to my hiding place far away
Wait. He could only come back to England because he was riding Quirrell...so how did he get back to Albania?

Chapter 34: Priori Incantatem

Quote:
I WON'T!
Under-rated moment of badassery from Harry, here, casually throwing off the Dark Lord's mind-rape even after a couple of doses of the most excruciating pain imaginable.

Quote:
The closer the bead moved, the harder Harry's wand vibrated...he concentrated every last particle of his mind upon forcing the bead backwards towards Voldemort...and slowly, very slowly, the beads quivered to a halt, and then, just as slowly, they began to move the other way...and it was Voldemort's wand that was vibrating extra-hard now...
With the right frame of mind, and a perhaps slightly more than passing knowledge of sexual aids, this scene is better than all the wand jokes in the entire series.

Chapter 35: Veritaserum

Quote:
Imagine how he will reward me, when he finds that I have done it for him.
Hmm. Really? Voldemort seemed pretty set on killing Harry himself. I'm not convinced this would work out as Crouch thinks it would.

Quote:
The look upon Dumbledore's face as he stared down at the unconscious form of Mad-Eye Moody was more terrible than Harry could ever have imagined.
...but great.

Chapter 36: The Parting of the Ways

Quote:
Harry is as sane as you or I
This...probably isn't the best character reference Harry could have been given.

Quote:
You'll forgive me, Dumbledore, but I've heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell before...
Then...why doesn't he believe it here? Is this a typo in my edition?

Chapter 37: The Beginning

Quote:
They did not blame him for what had happened; on the contrary, both thanked him for returning Cedric's body to them.
Might have been good for the team behind Cursed Child to reread this chapter in the planning stages...

Quote:
Too late now, Potter! They'll be the first to go, now the Dark Lord's back! Mudbloods and Muggle-lovers first! Well - second - Diggory was the f-'
Sigh. The Draco In Leather Pants trope just gets more and more painful to think about, doesn't it?

Quote:
So Bagman had to run for it.
Wonder what happened to him in the end?
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