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View Poll Results: I believe in….
the existence of Heaven and Hell. 12 20.00%
Reincarnation. 10 16.67%
a state of nonbeing. 30 50.00%
don’t know what to believe. 8 13.33%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:44 PM   #1
MysterioX
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Death and then what?

I have never been a big believer of God or Heaven/Hell. Been very curious of life after death for quite sometime now and finally I have come to accept and believe idea of Reincarnation and Karma.

If you take the theory of Heaven and Hell into consideration that would mean that life is never ending. You would end up in Heaven or Hell and continue your being and awareness. That would mean every being that died since the beginning of time is still there in heaven and you have a chance to get the autograph of the famous ones.

Recently I have taken a great interest and respect for Buddhism, so great that I even bought two books about it.

Reincarnation talks about rebirth where you will be reborn an animal or human according to your karma. Think of it has the points you have collected in your former life.

Buddhism talks about attaining Nibbāna (Nirvana). Quote from Wiki “It is a mode of being that is free from mind-contaminants (kilesa) such as lust, anger or craving; a state of pure consciousness and bliss unobstructed by psychological conditioning (sankhara). All passions and emotions are transformed and pacified such that one is no longer subject to human suffering or dukkha.”
In short, one will achieve enlightenment (Nirvana) and not be reborn.

Sadly, as you can see it involves a lot of sacrifice. I don’t know about you guys but those are a lot of sacrifices that I know I will certainly not be able to make at least in this lifetime. I am too attached to pussy, booze and weed.

I wanted to see what my fellow fantasy lovers think. I certainly can’t share this with my RL friends, they are likely to drag me into therapy.
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:00 PM   #2
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All wishful thinking aside, when you die you're dead and that's it. None of the popular fantasies makes much sense at all.
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:02 PM   #3
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The Afterlife or lack thereof is never an easy topic for open discussion. While I have great respect for Buddhist philosophy (I've read a great deal about a variety of religions), I don't think much of their afterlife ideas. My only dispute is that it doesn't "feel" right to me. Unending reincarnation until you become enlightened just seems so difficult. There must be a simpler way, it seems counterintuitive.

One life then the afterlife seems more probable to me because otherwise a single soul not only would need to become enlightened but also assimilate the essential identities of each of it's incarnations into a single entity. While I can admit that I am far from enlightened in the buddhist sense (I'm only beginning to understand zen), after my soul eventually does bcome enlightened what if I have other persona's that this current one cannot "get along" with or assimilate with? It would mean that my soul could never achieve nirvana because this one imperfect incarnation cannot be combined into the whole.
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:05 PM   #4
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When you're dead you are dead. I've never understood this whole soul nonsense.
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Old 07-11-2007, 10:34 PM   #5
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Life and consciousness are a result of our brain chemistry. When we die, our brains stop working. Hence, no more consciousness. No more life. No heaven or hell or reincarnation. You just cease to be.
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Old 07-11-2007, 10:36 PM   #6
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You die why does there need to be anything else to it.
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What does defeat mean to you?

Nothing. It will never come. Death before defeat. You can kill me, destroy my soul, destroy my magic, but you cannot defeat me. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. And you may destroy my magic, but not before I destroy everything of this world that I can…including your magic and soul. There is no defeat.
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Old 07-11-2007, 10:59 PM   #7
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I'd rather enjoy an afterlife, as the thought of ceasing to be makes me feel rather frightened, but I don't think there is such a thing.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:27 PM   #8
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Honestly, I couldn't care less about what happens after I die. Like MysterioX said, there is too much booze, pussy, weed, and fucking good times to be worried about that shit.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehio View Post
I'd rather enjoy an afterlife
That totally sucks. To be stuck in some kind of la-la land. BORING’s the word. If you end up in Heaven there will be no night, strip clubs etc cause it'll all be SIN.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:56 PM   #10
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Just for the sake of making myself better, I am going to say that we each get our own personalized heaven with the things we'd want. Seriously though, probably nothing, the light goes out of your eyes, and then nothing. It's damn depressing to seriously believe though, IMO.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:02 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by MysterioX View Post
That totally sucks. To be stuck in some kind of la-la land. BORING’s the word. If you end up in Heaven there will be no night, strip clubs etc cause it'll all be SIN.
Says who? You must be using some whacked out definition of heaven... To me a heaven would be somewhere that I could get whatever I wanted, booze, sex, and drugs included.

And just who says that strip clubs, drinking and smoking are "sins"? I don't ever recall reading "thou shalt not ingest that plant with the funny looking leaves" or "thou shalt not appreciate the female form" and as a matter of fact I've read more than a few bits of that big black book that encourage people to consume wine and "strong drink". And don't get me started on that porno-love letter that's labeled "the Song of Soloman".

If we weren't meant to enjoy sex, it would not feel good. And I doubt that a divine creator like the Christian God would make a mistake like weed or booze. To quote Benjamin Franklin, "Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy."

You need to stop listening to televangelists and fundamentalists of all varieties. They're just making shit up at this point to make you feel guilty and in need of that $49.95 savior special. Just send that money on in and you'll be forgiven from all these "horrible sins" that you've committed.

If a literal heaven exists and I somehow avoid the alternative, you better believe I'll still be the same old lecherous bastard I always was. I love women. I love the way they look, sound, smell, feel, and taste... You can't just call such a beautiful thing wrong. If God's going to forgive people and claim to love us all, he sure as hell isn't going to force us to change who we are. Forcing us to change aint love and it sure isn't forgiveness.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:14 AM   #12
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"I'm not fortunate enough to be a man of faith."

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For once, I agree with him. When you die, you are dead. End of story. If I could convince myself otherwise, I would. But I can't, so I won't lie to myself.
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Xiph0 What then?

Xiph0 Everyone needs projects.

Giovanni No long term projects except the goal of acquiring more property so that I can die.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:15 AM   #13
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I'd love to believe in heaven- the thought of some existence after life is nice. However, I can't. Life is brain chemistry. It's over when it's over.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:54 AM   #14
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Being only sixteen therefore not having much knowledge to contribute about actual religions, I take what good things I here about the different reigions and sort of combine them to my own philosiphy. So far I like the idea of reincarnation and that while you're on earth you should just be generally nice to people unless they wrong you.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:08 AM   #15
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I was an avid Christian growing up, believed everything I was told and never once questioned Him, but then I finally reached the point where I was 'grown up' and actually started wondering about blind faith.

It hit me that this 'knowing and loving god' who forgives everything as long as you believe in him, would eternaly damn a few billion people who live in places where Chrisianity is scorned and everyone's told the same thing any Christian is: "Look around you, we all are 'insert religion' and are god(s) is the truth and the way to salvation. If you join those Devil worshiping Christians, you will have no salvation."

I'm agnostic and I believe in this because of one thing: While simple amino acids were abundant in earth's early atmosphere, the smallest number of these needed to make a protein that's capable of replication is thirty-two. Do you have any idea of the odds of thirty-two amino acids forming together in that exact way to create such a protein? Ten to the power of forty-one. I've come to the conclusion that such a number is so near impossible to accomplish that something had to place it's hand in to the creation of the first real life on earth. Just my opinion though.
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:10 AM   #16
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Says who? You must be using some whacked out definition of heaven... To me a heaven would be somewhere that I could get whatever I wanted, booze, sex, and drugs included.
You can't do ANYTHING in heaven, or at least the traditional view of heaven. Heaven is a "place" that is supposedly out of time - there for eternity, having no beginning and no end. If time is not present, then you have no cause and effect. If you have no cause and effect, you have no actions. Our concluson: heaven, if it exists, is simply a state of being: one moment, lasting for eternity.

Anyway, I don't believe in heaven anymore, so pfft.

I would have to go into the "don't know" catagory at the moment, and really everyone would have to go there, because there is no way of knowing until you die yourself. I do, however, have a couple of theories that, even if I don't necessarily believe, were fun to think up.

1. Our perception of the universe is completely subjective. When we die, this is in effect, for us, the end of time - time stops from out point of view, as there is no future to move into. If you think of a person moving along the line of time as their life goes by, when they die they reach the end of the line. If this is so, does this mean that you will be stuck percieving your very last moment for eternity?

I do have another theory, but it's far too long to write at 7AM. I'll edit later.
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:34 AM   #17
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I chose heaven and hell, but only because it's the closest thing to what I think happens. I do believe that there is in fact some form of afterlife, though it will be outside that Human consciousness that dies with our brains. The quality of this afterlife would reflect our actions on Earth, much like the concept of Karma. I too was raised Catholic, and after leaving the faith and opting for Agnosticism, I've found that good people are everywhere, regardless of faith or lack thereof, and that to subject "Hell" on those who do not accept God or Jesus, simply because they are of another belief, would not be loving or knowing at all. If there is a God, which, because I also know what Kolskit stated, I firmly believe that there is, then it probably doesn't care what faith, race, etc. you were. Two simple rules: If you fuck people over, you lose. If you don't fuck people over, you should be fine as far as any afterlife goes.

The closest belief system to mine is probably Deism, and one of their beliefs I take to heart is that, in all the probability I have witnessed, yes there is a God, and it will continue our existence after death as it sees fit. If there is no afterlife and you cease to exist, than you won't be around to think that it sucks anyway, and if there is, than whoopdie doo for the non-assholes of the world. Death, any way you might look at it, is a sort of win-win situation anyway. Whether you proceed to a state of enlightenment or lose all conciousness and thought, you're at peace.
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:56 PM   #18
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Reincarnation seems to be what I belive in at the moment.

Having recently read Plato's The Last Days Of Socrates, I am sure you can see how my mind got influenced by that right now.
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giovanni View Post
"I'm not fortunate enough to be a man of faith."

-Karl Rove

For once, I agree with him. When you die, you are dead. End of story. If I could convince myself otherwise, I would. But I can't, so I won't lie to myself.
This.

Why the fuck do we need another religion thread? We already had a better one.
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Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H. L. Mencken
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:54 PM   #20
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I'm always surprised by what and how many people belief. To me, it simply defies logic.

The whole concept of religion, souls and afterlife just misses me. In my eyes, those are simply concepts used to try to explain the inexplicable. "I do not know, therefore God."

Surprisingly, I went with the "a state of nonbeing" option.
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