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Christchurch Mosque shooting

Discussion in 'Real Life Discussion' started by Innomine, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. Longsword

    Longsword Slug Club Member

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    Is calling somebody Eichmann penalty worthy ?
     
  2. Arthellion

    Arthellion The Chosen One

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    @BitMyFinger The people on DLP aren’t (typically) idiots. We know the stances and the arguments you’re espousing. Many in these threads know the arguments behind your stances far better than you do.

    As it stands, you’re just coming across as a caricature. You’re literally the strawman republicans like to prop up as the libtard.

    Take some time away from the brainwashed dogma. Reevaluate your beliefs. Test them. Some of your beliefs might change. Some won’t, but at least you’ll be able to support your stances with legitimate logic rather than the shrill screaming of the “libtard snowflake.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  3. Quiddity

    Quiddity Unspeakable

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    Sidenote, this isn't actually true. The three strikes law has yet to have any practical impact (unless it shifted judicial discretion, which is hard to measure and unlikely). That doesn't mean it isn't barbaric and wrong, but it's not had effect.

    There are many US threads. Kindly argue this irrelevant pedantry in them.

    I'm sorry, but who the hell do you think you are to be lecturing us about our issues - about the pace of our labour movement, about our racial relations?

    Did you Google these issues and skim wikipedia, or did you bother to read an article? Did you know the Māori party existed before today? Do you have a clue about their relationship with the Labour movement, with racial justice? Do you know what mana is? Tino rangatiratanga? Ratana? Bastion Point? Waitangi?

    Do you even give a crap about our country, or are we just a chance for you to beat your personal political hobby horses in?

    When I read the Brexit thread, I'm cautious, respectful, and very focused on the issues directly relevant or the ones it brings up that I have significant experience in. And I've read scores of articles on it, and listened to hours upon hours of podcasts and news coverage on it. The same for the US. When I go to the Polish thread, I keep my mouth tightly shut - even though I pay a fair attention to it.

    You, on the other hand, are insufferable even in threads where you've got a clue what you're talking about.

    Edit: which is not to say these issues aren't important. I have strong opinions on the labour movement, the climate strikes, the Māori party, and our involvement in the Middle East. Some of those I'm possibly even closer to your positions on then Innomine or S. But it's quite honestly not your place to be lecturing us on, and its frankly offensive that you tried.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  4. Innomine

    Innomine Death Eater Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Yeah, you just lost anything resembling credibility with this exchange. I could defend myself, but that's the idea right? When questioned, attack, it doesn't matter how stupid it sounds, just force them to explain themselves. Divert attention away from the fact that you have nothing more than zingy one liners and feel good quotes.

    Because to be clear, if you had anything of substance, I would have engaged constructively.
    --- Post automerged ---
    Right, you made me read about this briefly. You seem to be right. It's more driven by remand population, which I do remember hearing something abut. I don't know enough on this subject to comment, and I'm only willing to trust the article I read which relied on Judith Collins as a source so much haha.
     
  5. Joe

    Joe The Reminiscent Exile Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Australian poet John Williamson:

    Edit: I messed up the link on phone and just about to depart from Perth to Canberra. Give the poet a Google. His short verse on this tragedy is poignant.

    Edit2: http://imgur.com/gallery/k2FGmkZ
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  6. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    Your link is broken Joe
     
  7. Innomine

    Innomine Death Eater Prestige DLP Supporter

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    New Zealand has now banned all all military-style semi-automatic weapons and all assault rifles.

    Source: https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/nati...semi-automatic-weapons-and-all-assault-rifles

    That didn't take long.
     
  8. Sorrows

    Sorrows Order Member Prestige DLP Gold Supporter

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    It will be interesting to see what this response stirs up in the US.

    Responding to a mass shooting by closing loopholes in gun control laws and banning certain weapons? Have they gone completely insane?

    Have they not heard of thoughts and prayers?
     
  9. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Tactical Tomato DLP Supporter

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    The NRA will say something dumb, Twitter will see a bunch of thoughts and prayers for the oppressed peoples of NZ, no one in NZ will give two fucks.
     
  10. Agayek

    Agayek Fourth Champion DLP Supporter

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    Honestly, I'm not sure this was the correct response. I don't necessarily disagree with the move, but from what I've read of the situation, the shooter had obtained a fully legal license and passed the existing vetting process, so this feels like a kneejerk move to slap a bandaid on the bullet wound. It's effectively saying "Yes, we fucked up with the licensing system, so we're gonna make people go through it an extra time. I pinky-swear it'll work this time.".

    Really feels like they have things backwards for long-term solutions to this. But then again, this article does mention additional legislation coming in April. Maybe that will address that part and I'm making a fuss about nothing.
     
  11. Erotic Adventures of S

    Erotic Adventures of S Denarii Host

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    So yeah, I'm born and raised NZ, I know two people that own guns, one was military and did it for job, hobby.

    Other is my Uncle who hunts, neither had this sort of weapon nor would ever need this sort of weapon (I'm sure Army guy used them at work but all his gun were Rifles, or older model collector pieces).

    No one I know gives a fuck about the ban, I would guess it effects less than 1% of people.

    Guns should have a function, and these types of guns don't offer a practical purpose over single shot types.
     
  12. Sorrows

    Sorrows Order Member Prestige DLP Gold Supporter

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    Unless I read it wrong this is basically a band-aid solution. It is temporary untill the laws can be amended properly, presumably after at least several months of drafting/debate etc.
     
  13. Agayek

    Agayek Fourth Champion DLP Supporter

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    For sure. Like I said, I don't really disagree with the ban. It's just... "we put up a barrier that didn't work, so we're gonna put up a second one right behind it" isn't exactly inspiring. It's not going to hurt, so may as well do it, but I don't think it's addressing the core problem here, which in the realm of gun-control was the failure of the firearms licensing system to decline a man willing to shoot up a mosque.

    Maybe I'm worried about nothing and the upcoming legislation mentioned in the article will include changes to the licensing system to try and address this, in which case great. I'm mostly just concerned that people will point at this and say "Welp, that's settled. We're done here", when it hasn't really solved the problem (especially considering that most rifles manufactured in the last 30 years, "military style" or not, can be made fully automatic without a great deal of effort).
     
  14. Innomine

    Innomine Death Eater Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Hmm, not sure where your getting that from. As of 3pm today, all military-style semi-automatic weapons and all assault rifles are banned. Illegal.

    Anyone who currently owns one has an amnesty period to hand it over for destruction, with financial compensation provided. After which they will be liable for $4000 fine and up to 3 years in prison. It is a gun buyback scheme.

    The goal is to remove anything convertible into MSSA is banner, I think. The devil is, of course, in the details though. And those remain to be seen. But we’ll find out sooner than later.
     
  15. Invictus

    Invictus Banned

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    @Innomine I mean that sincerely. Arden has reached the right balance of compassion, decisiveness and action. Action. Not just shaking hands, singing sad songs, or I even mean the legislation. She's getting up, going where she needs to go and everywhere, and because she knows she needs to, because she understands the politics of a leader is not putting a show, but showing up. Her speech on not uttering the shooters name was great and exactly what needs to be said about such people.

    The knee-jerk legislation is expected. It's a common human reaction and frankly, it's an easy answer. But I would like to see her asking the tough questions. Media, both traditional and social, played an important role in this, both historically and specific now. How can we change both without removing fundamental freedoms but avoiding to incentive such attacks. That's the million dollars question in my view.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  16. Agayek

    Agayek Fourth Champion DLP Supporter

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    Where I'm getting it from is that it's generally not difficult to convert a semi-auto to a full-auto, both for "military style" and not weapons, so this change alone just means the next yahoo who's legally licensed only needs to find the anarchist's cookbook and/or an 'upgrade kit' and spend a weekend tinkering with their shiny new hunting rifle to have a roughly equivalent weapon to the banned ones (against unarmed and unarmored targets at least).

    Essentially, it wasn't the weapons themselves that were the problem, it was the licensing system that said the shooter(s) was well-adjusted and allowed to own guns in the first place that failed. And without addressing that, whatever hole allowed him access to the weapons will be exploitable by others.

    TL;DR is that this measure alone is insufficient, and the NZ government needs to also at the very least review the licensing system and determine what, if anything, can be done to help prevent people like the Christchurch shooter from getting access to any kind of gun in the first place. Maybe that's coming, and if so, great, but I feel like it needs to be said anyway, just in case.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  17. Innomine

    Innomine Death Eater Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Yes, this is a fair point. At least I assume it is. From what I understand, it’s intending on banning weapons that are convertible. However, I am not knowledgeable on weapons and defer to those that are. Regardless, I would argue it’s more symbolic than functional. No policy discussed and implemented in under a week can be. It does accomplish something useful, massively lowering the amount of these types of weapons in NZ, and as far as I can tell it does not over reach. It does not negatively impact those who need and use firearms regularly.

    It’s also a precedent for the rest of the world. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out on the global stage over time.

    Yes, I agree with you here.

    Macro level social change does not just occur through legislation, a significant portion of it occurs in the public conversations that we have. So I agree with your point that the real test is in the days to come. Until now, the response has been exemplary. The question is whether it can be maintained.

    Because we do need to have a serious conversation about institutional and unconscious racism in NZ. In fact, we have been having these conversations for some time now. But they have always been muted, never in the limelight. This event will serve as a catalyst in this, and the trajectory so far looks good.
     
  18. SmileOfTheKill

    SmileOfTheKill Magical Amber

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    My biggest issue with all of this is that while the ban might not be enough to stop these types of shootings, you always get people like you saying, well yeah butttttttttt......................

    The measure isn't enough but it's a step. It might not do enough right this very second but your tone makes it feel like they might as well do nothing till they have a comprehensive reform measure with a ten step process.
     
  19. Agayek

    Agayek Fourth Champion DLP Supporter

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    Oh that wasn't the intent, sorry if it came across that way. I'm not trying to disparage this, it's certainly not nothing. I'm just hoping people recognize this as the first of several steps and don't give up the job as done now that this step has been taken.
     
  20. Innomine

    Innomine Death Eater Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Right, so there was memorial for the events of last Friday (started at the same time as the shootings did, their prayer time), this involved a national broadcast of the muslim call to prayer, followed by 2 minutes of silence across NZ with all media (that I could tell) participating.

    Following this, was what I can only describe as a 'significant' speech by an Imam. Link to the very start of the event here. This includes the Muslim call to prayer. If you only want to watch the speech, follow this link. Highly worth watching.

    I'll edit in some thoughts later, but would be interested in thoughts from outsiders. Especially you @Invictus , does this count as asking some tough questions? I see this as a very... confronting speech. In that it both addresses some hard truths, but also will definitely antagonise some people. I am interested to see the public discussion following this.
     
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