WIP Defiance by Dark Lord Slytherin - M

Completely agree with basically everything Sesc said. I was recommending this fic in IRC a week or so ago and people were rather prissy about the indy!Harry elements, but I think "effective time waster" is a good description. If you're looking for perfection, obviously you're going to be disappointed. But if you have a craving to read some fun HP fanfic, this will avoid offending you too much.

3/5

 

Taure recommended this in IRC yesterday. I'm still baffled as to why anyone would (even ironically) praise this thing, and coincidentally because of this and Wind Shear I'm getting the feeling the fandom somehow regressed to 2007.

I'll try to be clear about what I mean: this fic is shit. Usually I'd call it "pretty shit", but this fic honestly doesn't deserve that particular nuance.

Reading this fic is like being hit with every branch of every tree of the Cliché Forest and then some. Sometimes it even manages the impressive feat of swerving to avoid one cliché and then ramming straight into it anyway. For instance, the fic starts out in the summer between fourth and fifth year, but literally nothing is different from the usual sixth year start so I don't know why the author bothered. Harry mistrusts Sirius? Nah, Sirius just has to shit on "that old goatfucker and his Order of the Fried Chicken" (might as well be a literal quote) and he's back in Lord Potter's good graces. It's like the author went through the Pet Peeves thread and actively made an effort to hit as many as he could. He even includes metatextual bullshit like italics, bold for flashbacks, etc.

All of this, combined with shitloads of spelling errors, awkward English and OOC bullshit, makes it a struggle to read. So after chapter 6 I stopped bothering.

1/5, and that still feels generous.

EDIT: revising rating to 2/5, to correct a misconception about the rating system.

 

1/5 absolute shit. I don't get the sense that this fic is self aware at all, just bad.

 

I think rating this 1/5 is a complete loss of perspective. 3/5 is the rating which earns a fic a place in Almost Recommended, the scope of which is "From Barely Readable to Almost Good".

To rate this fic as a 1/5 is to say that there's no category of fic worse than it. This is an absurd overreaction. The fic has many redeeming features:

1. A novel mystery which the author sustains rather than immediately resolving.

2. Plot progression which actually means that things happen in a reasonable number of words rather than eternal summer/training syndrome.

3. Cliffhangers that make you want to keep reading.

4. An unusually nuanced approach to manipulative Dumbledore in which Harry's perception of him is not the same thing as the truth.

5. A particularly well-characterised Daphne.

Yes, there are cliches. Yes, there are English errors, particularly in word choice. But to rate the fic 1/5 is to act as if there is nothing distinguishing this fic from a standard indy!Harry by-the-numbers summerfic. That is just simply, and objectively, not true.

Not only does rating the fic 1/5 diminish your credibility as objective critics, it also diminishes this forum. Fics like this one are the fics that the fandom are actually reading and want to discuss. If we collectively announce that there is no place to talk about such fics on DLP by rating them so lowly that they are deleted rather than admitted into "barely readable to almost good", then DLP is basically writing itself into irrelevance as an HP forum. People who want to actually discuss the actively updating fics of the fandom will go elsewhere.

Meanwhile DLP will become empty because we judge every fic as so below our notice that we won't even discuss it.

The whole reason we have Almost Recommended is to be able to discuss the fics that aren't good enough for the Library but nonetheless people are reading. Please don't turn Almost Recommended into just another extension of the Library.

 

I'll agree that maybe 1/5 is too harsh and was made with the idea that 0/5 was a possible score. I suppose the rating of "barely readable" fits this better than "absolute dross unworthy of even being on the site".

But I don't agree that this fic is all that different from the paint-by-the-numbers Indy!Harry. In the 6 chapters I read, I hit upon only the first point you mentioned before quitting in disgust and boredom, and even then the mystery wasn't particularly engaging, certainly not enough so to make up for the extremely lackluster other parts. If I'd stumbled across this while wandering around FFN, I certainly wouldn't have given clicking the back button a second thought. Even your and Sesc's recommendations can only make me ignore so much.

 

I'm a rather frequent poster in the Review Board. Lately, there's a trend wherein DLP members rate stories exceptionally low or are very caustic in reviews (occasionally I too am a bit harsh). It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does pose a problem when the Library doesn't gain new (if flawed) stories that aren't unreadable.

This is a perfect example of a 3/5 story. It literally epitomizes what I'd call average.

Like Sesc and Taure both said, the story does fall into some of the same pitfalls indy!Harry stories do. The story is inherently flawed. The story is far from perfect. But that doesn't detract too much from overall enjoyment.

The premise itself is a very interesting one, and well-executed. It managed to hook me (which is a rarity these days). From there, the story doesn't lose momentum. It progresses at a believable pace.

Besides that, I liked the characters. Harry was well done. He felt very much like his canon counterpart. I could detect the same rebellious, oft foolhardy and singularly sarcastic tendencies. There were times he was out of character. Granted, they were a bit off-putting, but easy enough to overlook in the long run.

Also, it's apparent that Harry has issues with Dumbledore. Rather than those issues being the standard fare seen in these types of stories, Dark Lord Slytherin twists them in an intriguing manner. Harry's problems with Dumbledore arise from how controlling he is. Not because Dumbledore's a thief. Not because Dumbledore's a senile codger. Not because Dumbledore's a vainglorious bastard. That was not only creative, but executed well.

Daphne too was cool. She's a blank slate, and she was moulded into a three-dimensional, realistic character with a unique voice. She's not the typical "ice-queen" (whoever thought of that needs to be shot), but exactly the right kind of wary you'd expect. Her wariness doesn't veer into antipathetic territory, but rather remains in the firmly grounded in realism.

The only gripes I've got are the aforementioned indy!Harry pitfalls the story falls into occasionally and the writing. I guess it's unavoidable, really. It is an indy!Harry story, after all. The redeeming factor is that these pitfalls aren't overblown and are resolved acceptably.

The writing was a bit bland. It became tedious at times, but overall was pretty much average. There were some oddly phrased sentences due to poor word choice. There were some grammatical errors interspersed throughout the story as well.

So, yeah. That's that. 3/5 is a perfect score for this story.

 

Like Taure and Sesc said it's a typical 3/5 story with lots of cliches but somewhat well executed. However I think the last 2 or 3 chapters really lost in quality so I might lower my note if the next chapters stay on the same tone.

 

2/5 at the most. Harry is a complete OOC Gary Stu here with not even trying to explain why. Just some hints with no substance. The Ron/Hermione bashing angle is a badly executed trope.

It's a guilty pleasure at most and you feel really guilty afterwards.

 

I disagree with this. Literally all of it. Fics are not judged in relativity to each other, or at least they shouldn't. The fact that worse fics exist doesn't mean this, or anything being discussed at any one time, isn't worth the lowest score available.

You attacking other people's credibility as objective critics for judging a fic that you personally liked as terrible is horseshit. You thinking that it also reflects badly on DLP is not only horseshit, it's also arrogant to the point of absurdity.

Some people judge fics you like shit. For many reasons. Get over it.

DLP's identity has been subject of debate a lot, but at the core I think most would agree it is -and has always been- about quality.

Regardless of whether this particular fic is quality or not, you saying that DLP finding currently trending fics irrelevant is killing the forum is ridiculous. Fics are still coming in but even if DLP suddenly decided to no longer deal with HP fanfiction, it wouldn't die out. DLP hasn't been solely -or even in a majority- about fanfiction for a good while now.

Beyond that, you're implying, if not outright saying that DLP has an obligation to accept fics that other HP communities find good? What the fuck?

DLP remains relevant as an HP forum by having, even to this, day, some of the best writers, active and inactive, as active members, and having the best archive of quality fics one can find. Not for discussing whatever fad is currently going through ffnet or AO3 or whatever the fuck.

About the only thing I agree with that you said is that we have the Almost Rec'd subforum for fics that are almost good or are guilty pleasures. No shit?

 

I think you might need to take a reading comprehension class.

Is the exact opposite of what I said. I did not say they were wrong because their preferences differed from my own. I said they were wrong because they failed to acknowledge the elements of the fic which distinguish it from the class of fic they claimed it belongs to. If you call a fic a typical indy!Harry fic, and it contains numerous non-typical elements, then you're just wrong. It's not a matter of personal preference.

To be factually wrong about the contents of a fic in your review of that fic does diminish the reviewer.

Please point out the part where I stated we should let low quality fics into the Library.

Almost recommended is not part of the Library. It is specifically for fics that lack quality but nonetheless the forum wishes to discuss. To apply Library standards to Almost Recommended is to make it a completely redundant subforum.

DLP is about quality but it is also about freedom of discussion. We have "Worst of" and "Pet Peeves" threads to discuss hilariously awful fanfiction. We have the Library to discuss great fanfiction. And we have Almost Recommended for the stuff in-between. For everything there is a correct place.

Irrelevant, since my post solely concerned DLP's utility as a place to discuss fanfiction, not as a forum in general.

This is neither stated nor implied. What was stated is that it is good that DLP has a place for its members to discuss the fics they are reading which are not good enough for the Library, and to adopt a set of standards such that there is no place to discuss these fics would make the forum worse off.

 

People are either too much elitiests or protect or wish to protect the library, that any story they find at fault gets 2/5 or 1/5.
ignoring the middle ground of almost recommended.

 

Can't take the cliche road anymore. I thought we've outgrown this type of writing but anyhow, I'll give it 2.5/5. I wouldn't recommend it to anybody but I'll read it for myself if I have nothing better to do.

 

Holy shit though guys. Can we just like... accept that people have different tastes and move on? Let's not attack each other. We're more mature than that. We're here to offer reviews based on personal opinions. Let's not derail the thread with unnecessary argumentation when it's just people offering personal opinions.

 

Eh... at the risk of making this 100% tangential, one of the things DLP does is make people justify their opinions. Exploring the justification behind our opinions is one of the reasons this forum prides itself on a higher level of criticism and discussion than other venues.

 

Yeah, I can understand that. But in keeping with the spirit of DLP's purpose, isn't it much better just to have civil discussion? It's much more palatable to review stories and explain your position civilly, without the unnecessary squabbling (which I totally see on the horizon if this difference of opinions between you and Republic proceeds further).

 

That is outrageous. You don't get to decide credibility of other people just because they called your rec shit. DLP has never been a hug box not even for you or Sesc.

Honestly you sound more like you are trying to trick this story in to library by making people vote average while you and select few votes high. Even if that is not your intention.

It is everybodies right to vote low if they think 4 stars are too much for a story. It will go to almost reccomended anyway as it is 3 stars of right now.

Also your rant DLP getting empty is baseless fear mongering. Like this;

Because lets face it, we never bowed down on anybody in this fandom in fear of they won't come here. If we did we would have brought hundreds of unreadable HP/G stories to the Library because "People" wanted that. That is not us. And that won't be us.

So stop attacking peoples character because you can't find flaws in their argument and get real.

 

I gave this 1/5 and I stick to it. I don't rate fanfiction or anything else on a curve. 95% of fanfiction is 1/5 shit. That this fic is a little closer to the top of the shitheap doesn't mean it doesn't belong there.

I couldn't get through this story. I tried reading it when Taure linked it in IRC, and again when people here were rating is well. There is absolutely nothing redeemable about this. It uses every horrible trope, its characters are unlikable and poorly characterized. It isn't well written, and doesn't have novelty of being unique in some way that would enable me to look past the rest of this shit.

Maybe I just don't like this fic in particular, I don't have much tolerance for these cliches. However I stand by my principle of grading. I couldn't read this, therefore it is 1/5.