I dont know if this has been brought up before and would like to get it cleared up.
If expelliarmus is enough for Malfoy to gain control of the elder wand from Dumbledore, then shouldnt Voldemort have won it when he used the Avada kedavra on Harry in the forest?

Feel free to correct me on this, it's kinda confusing.

 

Well, JKR had to find a way some stupid Wand rules as a plot device... without taking all the effects in considerations. That's why HBP and DH sucks.

 

I suppose Voldemort using the AK on Harry in the forest doesn't count as a true defeat, as Harry was a willing victim. A sacrifice rather than defeat. Also, remember that Harry was the first true master of the Hallows, because he was the first one to possess them that was willing to embrace death.

 

What do you have to be to become the true master of the three most powerful magical objects in the world? Simple! You have to be suicidal!


That should count as a brilliant way to keep them off the real power-hungry megalomaniacs, but guess what? Any wizard that gets hold of those can use them (or at least their most practically useful powers anyway IMHO). I'm still not sure what was the reason JK brought those things into the story, unless it was just to lay on the heavy moral overtones (courage! honour! sacrifice! ^_^).

 

Wow Taure deep........You are right, but didnt Dumbledore embace defeat so he could save Malfoy?Does anyone know if attentionwhore!Rowling mentioned if she planned the hallows from the start in one of her interviews?

 

I'm betting on a "no".

Her original outline for the series probably followed this:

 

Yeah, that's probably what it looked like.

As to why Malfoy got the wand, even if it looked like he 'sacrificed' him to save Malfoy the wand rules may have seen it as him using a situation as best he can. You can't really sacrifice yourself when you're about to be killed, you don't really have a say in the matter.

You'll notice that Dumbledore never embraced death? That was probably because he never saw it as the end. Instead he believed(quite arrogantly imho) that he would continue on to have another adventure. Whereas Harry believed that in fact he would die and that be the end of his existence.

@mors, that is quite possible. We know she did write it as a children's book so we could be reading more deeply into something then she did(extremely likely). We all know how much attention she put into the story.

I just though of something, what if the wand rules knew Harry would come back? Then it wouldn't have counted as 'defeat' because it knew he'd get back up. The wand rules must be in some way connected to magic all over the world in some form, or what ever makes prophecies have their power over life and death.

 

I don't think this is true. He had, after all, just spoken with his dead parents, Sirius and Lupin. No, Harry definitely knew that there was something after death. Bully for him

And as humourous as that "plot outline" is, I think we need to be able to look past our grudge against JKR for not providing the story we wanted and acknowledge that we give her less credit than she deserves, though certainly she does not deserve as much as she receives.

 

I think giving the wand a mind of it's own is going a bit far. It may be super powerful but its not invincible, and I cant help but think that once it registers that its current master is dead...even for a second....it would have switched to Voldemorts control. Really though in the last few years of the series that wand had more people owning it than Ginny on a friday night.

 

JKR has said that wands are semi-sentient.

 

And Rowling's words are gospel.

Taure, I read HBP twice back in 2005, so you may forgive me for fucking up details of the plot. It's still possible that Snape was helping Malfoy, but that he wasn't aware of it.

 

I thought that was implied. He swore an unbreakable oath to help and finish the task (i'm not sure about the help part, I didn't pay much attention to HBP after like 3 chapters...) that was assigned to him by the dark lord.

 

Remember the scene at Slughorn's party when Snape pulls Malfoy aside and tries to get him to accept help? The same scene where we learn about Malfoy's occlumency?

Well, even at the end of that scene Malfoy wasn't accepting help, and we know that he already had the idea for the vanishing cabinets by then, so that idea didn't come from Snape.

Also, since DH we know Snape was loyal to Dumbledore, and Dumbledore didn't know of the cabinets, so it's safe to say Snape didn't know of them either.

 

I agree with The Doctor... The Elder Wand is definitely just a glorified Deus Ex Machina... She made Voldemort way too strong and Harry way too weak... So, with all due respect, she pulled this Elder Wand crap outta her ass along with Harry/Ginny... It really doesn't make much sense...

 

The sad thing is that just about everything in the series is resolved by the magical power of the deus ex machina:

Book One: Harry's blood protection defeats Quirrell/Voldemort.

Book Two: Fawkes and the Sorting Hat show up at the right moment, Harry magically gets a sword, Fawkes heals Harry.

Book Three: Harry travels back in time and defeats 100 Dementors by way of a predestination paradox (where's the TARDIS when you need it?).

Book Four: Priori Incantatem, the Brother Wands.

Book Five: Voldemort being unable to possess Harry, Order and Dumbledore arriving at the opportune moment.

Book Six: Felix Felicis.

Book Seven: The Deathly Hallows.

 

Yes... This is all very true... It seems J.K. Rowling has a penchant for painting her characters into walls... It's actually quite annoying... For a series that goes against god so much, Harry sure has lotsa help from the big man upstairs, eh?

 

His earlier life at the Dursleys is not even near a reasonable price for the sheer amount of dumb luck that Harry receives.........Its reasonable to assume that karma is waiting in the shadows in some back street in diagon alley ready to rape him in the ass with a pitchfork.

 

Leave it to someone named ivebeenviolated to posit this theory.

Anyway, Harry ending up with Ginny and her spawn for the rest of his days is, I believe, the inevitable ass raping you were theorizing the existence of.

 

Hey.........that hurt . Ivbeenviolated was a funny name for the first few days.....but now it just sucks.....

Yeah, I can imagine 30-something Harry strung up by his work tie in his office in the DMLE, just so he would not have to endure yet another day of going home to that.

 

They say payback's a bitch...Harry got it in the form of Ginny didn't he?