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Expression and regulation online

Discussion in 'Real Life Discussion' started by ScottPress, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    When people start dying in droves from the spate of fentanyl-sporks, get back to me. Until then, cut the crap.
    --- Post automerged ---
    Only, the manufacturer spent years being warned repeatedly about the problem and refused to investigate a solution.

    And the fact of the matter is that FB and the rest have done more or less NOTHING to tackle the problem, so they don't get any sympathy from me. Alex Jones was mentioned earlier in the thread. Well, he spent years violating Twitter's TOS, but nothing happened to him because Jack Dorsey didn't feel like lifting his finger.
     
  2. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    If your criteria for govt regulation is "has this killed enough people?" then I see why you won't address drones blowing up weddings.


    Plenty of people opposed to Jones violate TOS daily, but Jack Dorsey does nothing. Doesn't that bother you?
     
  3. Sataniel

    Sataniel Professor

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    https://boingboing.net/2019/04/11/one-hour-service.html


    Need to fight those archiverrorist.

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/11/...ontent-takedown-mistakes-internet-archive-org

    Additional informations here.
     
  4. Agayek

    Agayek Fourth Champion DLP Supporter

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    Fucking really?

    I can't facepalm any harder.
     
  5. awinarock

    awinarock Fourth Champion

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    The worst part about these regulations is that in attempting to bring powerful tech companies to heel and hold them accountable, they achieve the exact opposite. In the end, the only companies that will be able to host anything will be already established billion dollar corporations because they'll be the only ones able to foot the bill to fight the inevitable legal battles that will arise as stupid users do stupid shit.
     
  6. Silirt

    Silirt Professor DLP Supporter

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    Project Gutenberg: If Net neutrality goes it's going to be the death of us!
    French Cyber Police: Au contraire, mon ami!

    Les conséquences ne seront plus jamais les mêmes.
     
  7. awinarock

    awinarock Fourth Champion

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    If y'all have the space and speed necessary to rip as many files from these archives, do it now. Who knows what these crusty old fucks will do in the months to come. It seems that they're not content with simply destroying the planet, they have to fuck up the internet as well before they kick the bucket.
     
  8. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    In other news, T-Series took PewDiePie to court in India over PDP's diss track making fun of T-Series.

    I have no words.
     
  9. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter

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    I kind of want some more background for this? I've read about 10 posts in here so far (and can't finish yet as I have to go out for lunch), but...

    Scott's first post is about regulation and cyberbullying. Then in later posts all of a sudden everyone is bringing up kids and parents - I feel like I missed a major part of the backstory of this conversation.

    Cyberbullying isn't limited to children, though in some ways I think it's worse for them. Why does Bitmyfinger keep coming up in comments?

    I assume the relevant backstory is in the news thread you said you linked those posts from, but maybe edit and add a paragraph to give some context here? I'll keep reading later - interesting discussion.
     
  10. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    We did address it. There was a terrorist there, so we blew up the wedding. Stop inviting them to your weddings.

    Sure. If I want him banned for breaking them, then everyone else who breaks them should be banned too.
     
  11. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    @Darth_Revan Don't be obtuse. The point you didn't address was the next one. How's the terrorist's nephew at that wedding supposed to know that their uncle is on an American kill list?
    --- Post automerged ---
    @Ched missing context is indeed in the News thread. Start here to get the full picture.
     
  12. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Because they don't know their uncle's a mujaheddin? Yea right.
     
  13. Silirt

    Silirt Professor DLP Supporter

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    My paternal uncle is a Mason and I wasn't aware of it until he told me a year ago, and only me, and only because he's allowed to tell potential recruits.
     
  14. Darth_Revan

    Darth_Revan Secret Squirrel Prestige DLP Supporter

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    And do the Masons go around carrying AKs and RPGs? Believe me, it's not a secret society. Everyone knows.

    Edit: This is a complete derail, so I won't continue. Sorry.
     
  15. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    Sure, that's sounds like a solid explanation, no need to elaborate, you slapped me down good.

    To sum up: 1.it's on the terrorist's family to know they might catch a missile up the ass 2. Civilians shouldn't have guns, syringes and probably other things 3. Broad, badly-written, primed-for-abuse laws are fine as long as PR refers to child porn

    Solid worldview.
     
  16. The Iron Rose

    The Iron Rose Headmaster

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    More to the point, weddings are a great opportunity to go for high value targets. While civilian casualties are unfortunate, in international law there exists a principle of proportionality that states that such civilian casualties are acceptable in a state of armed conflict so long as they are proportionate to the military objective being achieved.

    Taking out some jihadi bombmaker or financier with 10-20 civilian casualties as a byproduct is an extraordinary improvement over traditional aerial warfare. The US drone campaign having the second lowest rate of civilian casualties in aerial action after the 2006 Israel-Lebenon war. It is by nearly every definition proportionate. While concerns about drones exist, they primarily concern issues of distance and whether or not drone strikes are being done by the CIA (illegal af) or the USAF (which is fine since they are uniformed combatants). Similar concerns exist concerning the definition of armed conflict and accuracy in targeting, but these are less significant and under most readings of International Humanitarian Law are not problematic. Proportionality vis a vis civilian casualties is not the major problem with the legality of drones by any stretch of the imagination.

    We've gone over this time and again however, and it's entirely orthogonal from the point of this thread.

    Personally, I'm entirely in favour of forcing tech companies to take more responsibility for the content hosted on their platforms. However, mandating that such companies regulate cyberbullying as prohibited content is unenforceable and unquestionably far too broad. Much more worrying, that provision about fake news is exactly what China, the KSA, Egypt, and other dictatorial countries around the world use to rubber stamp their suppression and criminalization of dissidents. There's absolutely nothing stopping the government from declaring that the next scandal expose is Fake News - Donald Trump does it every single day!
     
  17. Dystopian Destiny

    Dystopian Destiny Fourth Year

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    If you are going to commit to such a strategy, won't radicalization increase further? The value you put on American lives is understandable, given that you are an American, but realize the other side is human too, even if they have bad ideologies.
    Sorry for deviating from the thread's purpose, this post is here just to point that out.
     
  18. The Iron Rose

    The Iron Rose Headmaster

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    What's that Stanley McChrystle quote again? It went something along the lines of "every time you kill one terrorist you create 8 more" - I'm butchering it but you get the point. Of course we're radicalizing people - we're killing their fathers and mothers.

    I don't particularly blame the children and cousins of said jihadi bombmaker hating America and can hardly begrudge them for wanting to fight against the people who just blew up half their family. I'm still quite happy to defend our right to do so because I believe it's an important and effective component of our counterterrorism and counterinsurgency strategies.

    But it must be coupled with other anti- radicalization programs, extensive outreach towards local communities, establishing deep ties the the various diasporas, ensuring that refugees and immigrants are integrated, welcomed, and protected. To make it again relevant to this thread, it must be coupled with censorship of terrorist material, websites, and social media.

    This is where government outreach and regulation is essential. If we want to avoid fighting the same wars 50 years from now, we need to present a legitimate alternative to martyrdom. I'm happy giving governments broad powers to do that, but obviously there's a line - just look at the Internet archive take down that was posted in... One of these threads, I can't keep track of it anymore.

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/11/...ontent-takedown-mistakes-internet-archive-org

    in any event, this isn't the thread for drones and it's the last I'll say on that subject.
     
  19. awinarock

    awinarock Fourth Champion

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    It's not about drones but the topic of censoring terrorist propaganda is relevant to the discussion. Regarding suppressing that propaganda (and doing local community outreach program): no amount of outreach or propaganda suppression in the world is going to convince someone that just saw their family members blown to bits that maybe jihad isn't the way. What might the legitimate alternate to martyrdom be for someone who life was literally blown away? Edit: Hell, even the local villagers would think twice about helping out the Americans after one of their own got blown to bits for being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Isn't this terrorist propaganda censorship more for stupid kids who descended from immigrants and feel that their cushy western life just isn't cutting it for them anymore? The ones that fly to Syria to join ISIS and shit? Isn't the real solution to stop these kids and terrorists in general just to get the fuck out of these countries?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  20. Agayek

    Agayek Fourth Champion DLP Supporter

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    There's no simple or easy solution to the matter, otherwise it would have been solved already. Shit that happened ages ago (most prominently the end of WWI and the European powers deciding to carve up the Middle East into their own fiefdoms, regardless of the locals' opinions) is still hanging over the region like an angry cloud, and it can and will be used to stir up discontent against the West, which ultimately leads to terrorism. Especially since there are several regimes out there right now who actively benefit a great deal from their funding of various terrorist activities.

    If everyone except the natives got up and left right now, all that'd change is that they'd come up with new justifications for it.

    As for the propaganda censoring, the main benefit of that is to keep Westerners from self-radicalizing (see: the guy who shot up the Orlando nightclub). It's got minimal impact on the folks out in the Middle East; most of their propaganda is word of mouth and charismatic people. But they also keep putting out stuff that attracts a particular mindset and sends them diving down the rabbit hole, and some number of them go off the deep end and shoot up a bar or whatever. That's why folks want it censored on the internet, and one of several reasons I'm behind such movements.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
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