I have a massive idea in a notepad document, but brainstorming by yourself is terrible as there is no one to bounce your ideas off to tell you if it's stupid, and the idea I have, I'm unsure if the timeline for it flows correctly, etc, etc... so I was wondering if anyone would mind doing a bit of brainstorming with me?

I think this is the right place to put it...

 

You can either post your idea here and ask specific q's to start a discussion...or go to irc in #thestudy section and bounce around ideas there.

Here's probably better though, people can be in and out of irc all the time, at least here they will see your thread whenever they check-in dlp.

 

Kay. Thanks.

The idea is that Voldemort was already on Quirrell's head during the Diagon Alley scene and that Hagrid overslept that morning.

Thus, Voldemort manages to break into the bank and steal the stone and while escaping the alley sees Hagrid and Harry and decides to get Quirrell to kidnap Harry and retrieve the other thing he wanted, the Prophecy, and Harry is kidnapped and taken to the Ministry... (while causing more chaos in Diagon Alley)

I've been toying with this idea for a while now, and hopefully get the plot to sound realistic, I'm hoping to have this as the first chapter with the ministry scene included and then diverge from canon and have a proactive Harry.

The issue I'm having trouble with is how to aline the timeline of events up without it seeming forced, I think if Hagrid was thirty minutes late in waking up, that would allign with Quirrell getting the stone and managing to escape- and after I resolve that issue, it's hardly likely Quirrell is going to walk out the front door unless he very sneakily managed to steal the stone. =/

 

Right, for it to initially make sense, my first thought was "Maybe Hagrid was drunk, thats why he overslept, and now he's hungover, so presents and easier target for Harry to get kidnapped."

After that, you have to decide what you actually want to have happen. So Voldequirrell decide to kidnap Harry, fair enough. They then break into the Ministry to get the prophecy, again thats fine. What happens then? I don't quite understand from your post. Does Voldemort only narrowly escape the unspeakables who arrived in time to hear the prophecy, and decide to take Harry in hand? Does Voldemort take Harry with him and raise him and as minion? Does Voldemort narrowly escape, leaving Harry behind, and this wakes Dumbledore up to reality and he starts to train Harry up, or even he refuses to and Harry takes his own training in hand as much as he can?

 

I don't think Voldemort would be stupid enough to go after a second objective before he's secured the safety of the stone.

 

True. He has the element of surprise at that time in canon, he wouldn't sacrifice it so soon.

 

Thanks for all the replies.

To be honest, the idea came from a very bad idea I had of Voldemort raising Harry, before I scrapped it and kept some of the ideas I liked in a notepad document, the idea in that was that Harry broke into the Ministry on his orders, got the Prophecy, and afterwards swore a vow to Voldemort, but it seemed so corny I realized it would be terrible.

In this idea I'm going to have someone arrive at the last moment and rescue him, and Voldemort realizing he can't have both victories that day flees with the stone knowing the body he's possessing is still quite weak and if Dumbledore showed up, then he would loose the stone.

Afterwards I was hoping for a little bit of Rita Skeeter to show Harry the Wizarding World a little earlier, before Dumbledore finally shows up.

Afterwards it will be a Dumbledore teaching Harry- well as much as you can teach an eleven year old without them complaining about being bored- and the divergences because of the war starting earlier.

I wanted it so either a: he uses stealth and gets out scott free and gets Harry similiar to the way you said, or b: he escapes with chaos in the alley and on the way running out of the Gringotts wards - as I would gather anti-apparation, or if not, then I will have it that way - Voldemort sees Harry and tells him what to do and he kidnaps Harry that way, it really depends on the timespan I'm allowing myself.

To be quite honest the reason I wanted a bit of chaos was to add some death into the first chapter, a random character killed trying to protect Harry, maybe even Molly who was there that day.

Either way, I wanted to have the little things included like Quirrell being burned if he touches Harry, and thus having to use alternate methods of traveling, and the Imperio, etc...

The plot afterwards isn't a massive one, it's going to be a re-telling with divergences and different plots, but I can't admit to it being something like a "Harry gets Merlin's powers! yay!" kinda plot device as it isn't that simple, I just have a lot of ideas in my head for the different books but the main focus is Harry being a lot closer to Dumbledore, having to face the chosen one stuff earlier, the Ministry having to acknowledge Voldemort is alive earlier, etc, etc...

 

To be honest, it sounds like you have no clue as to what to do after Voldemort gets the stone and the prophecy.

Besides, keep in mind the first book found its conflict in Voldemort trying to regain a body of his own and his method of choice being the sorcerer's stone, which he had to steal from a "vigilant" (generously put) Dumbledore. If you completely destroy that conflict by having Voldemort get the stone early, the whole plot arc of book 1 is useless, and there goes your plan of re-telling canon.

But this is good. I, for one, don't care for a canon rehash.

So first, in order to give you useful advice or to bounce off ideas, you need to come up with the rest of the plot. I imagine Harry's long-term goal is to kill Voldemort, thus ending the conflict. But you need to figure out how, when, where and with whom. Without those we can't really help any.

Sketch that and share. It doesn't have to be terribly developed, just enough for us to get an idea of what should happen. If we find your ideas clichéd or bullshit or incomplete, we'll say so, and that should help you polish the plot.

Good luck.

 

How about Quirrell manages to convince Hagrid to let him finish taking Harry shopping, which shouldn't be too difficult. Hagrid is naturally trusting of anyone Dumbledore trusts, and Quirrell is a teacher at Hogwarts, ergo...Then there is no need for compulsion, all Quirrell has to do is say something like "If you don't mind Harry, there is a quick stop I need to make at the Ministry of Magic. I'm going to put a disguise on you so that nobody recognises you, so just stay quiet and we'll be done and on with you're shopping in no time."

Harry, being 11 will almost certainly have no problem with that, likely finding it fun. For breaking in to the DoM, and indeed Gringotts, I suggest some sort of special apparation which allows him to break through certain wards or something. No need to be particularly specific about it, as the POV (Harry) won't understand it anyway. Maybe all he sees is Quirrell drink a vial of potion before he grabs Harry's arm and they disapparate.

You mention wanting to have Rita Skeeter be the first one that Harry really interacts with...That makes very little sense. It would be an official of some sort that first interacted with Harry, Skeeter would have no reason to be in the DoM, or even if she was there snooping around, as soon as alarms start going off she is going to get out of there PDQ.

 

Someone mentioned that Quirrel cannot touch Harry, which is not entirely true. As we see in canon, Harry and Quirrell can touch (as they shook hands in Diagon Alley) unless Harry is being threatened or endangered by Quirrelmort (or so I think).

Your biggest problem right now is do you want Harry to be influenced/half raised by Voldemort? Or, do you want Dumbledore to save Harry at the last moment in the MoM when Voldemort hears the prophecy and have Harry become a BAMF?

If Voldemort manages to steal the stone before Harry and Hagrid arrives, he would not have to put up a front. He could introduce himself as a brilliant and passionate man that Harry instantly likes. Hagrid would run to tell Dumbledore what had happened.

I do not think Voldemort would go after the prophecy, as he would want a new body before he challenges anyone. He is not very strong at the moment. Could the stone create a new body? If it does, will Voldemort look normal (aka, before he was blasted from his body)? If it doesn't, does he still need the ritual or a change ritual to come back?

With the Quirrelmort meeting, you can go 3 ways (that i can think of)

1) Have Quirrelmort convince Harry to go with him. Voldemort could teach him the wizarding world and twist his viewpoint greatly. I believe Harry does not even know who Voldemort is at this point. This would be a true Slytherin Voldemort who tricks Harry into trusting him. A strange mentor like Voldemort while Harry is in Hogwarts. You could even have DE Quirrel teach DADA while Voldemort regains his body and plots.

2) Have Quirrelmort kidnap Harry to the MoM to get the prophecy. Once he hears it, tries to kill Harry and luckily someone appears (Dumbledore, Tonks, ect) and saves him just in time. Harry learns of his destiny early and the war starts off violent and bloody. Dumbledore never suspecting the war to restart so soon.

3) No kidnapping or anything. After the meeting, Harry meets Dumbledore for the first time as he comes to the bank. Learns about Voldemort and how he might still be alive. But when you go to Hogwarts, Quirrel is there as a loyal DE. This would be the most logical but not as exciting. You would need to have ideas for the rest of the year, but could be epic.

Once you figure out what you really want to happen to Harry, you can begin to plan further out and flesh out the first year.

 

Why would Quirrelmort use Harry to get the prophecy? At this point in time, he doesn't even know only he and Harry can get it. He actually tried (and failed) to use an Unspeakable in OotP and needed an escaped Death Eather (Rookwood?) to tell him about it. So there would be no reason for him to take Harry for the prophecy at this point in time.

Either way, I honestly doubt Voldemort would bother with the prophecy if Hagrid actually lets Harry alone with him. He'd probably just try to kill him on the spot. He didn't let any possible future need for Harry stop him from trying to kill him twice in PS. And in GoF, when he has the perfect opportunity to steal the prophecy with Harry in his grasp and everyone's attention on the tournament, he again opts for simply trying to kill him. It isn't untill Harry manages to not only survive the second direct confrontation, but actually overcomes him in a duel, that Voldemort starts to focus on the prophecy. Which makes sense, for at that point he's desperately trying to find an explanation for his defeat and is actually afraid Harry might be more skilled than him.

If you still want Voldemort to take Harry and go for the prophecy, I'd say you should have Voldemort try to kill Harry the moment he's got him alone. His Killing Curse simply bounces off however, almost taking Voldemort down again. Other attempts fail as well and Voldemort realizes he can't do anything more damaging than simply binding Harry. Because of his complete lack of understanding of love, he won't immediatly think of any Ancient Love Magic (even his less corrupted younger form didn't consider such an option), but assume there's something about Harry himself that's making him unkillable. When several tests provide no solutions (several days will probably pass during this time) he decides to go for the one thing that might hold an answer to Harry's unexplicable power. The prophecy.

In this case, Voldemort would probably creat a new body before going to the DoM. Altough that might depend on how long such a process will take. He might even contact some old followers. However, if he's already desperate enough to break into the DoM to find an answer to Harry's power, he might not actually want anyone else to know about it. For all he knows it's transferable or learnable in some way. The last thing Voldemort would want is even more people that can resist his curses, followers or not.

In the end, you'd still need a good reason why Voldemort would take Harry to get the prophecy. Locking Harry up and getting it by himself seems the more reasonable option anyway. In any case, this scenario does create a valid reason for Voldemort to want to get the prophecy. And the experience of being the Dark Lord's prisoner for an extended period of time might have some interesting effects on Harry as well.

I hope this helps.

 

Could the stone create a new body? Maybe, it depends how you view the stone to work. It could go with simply reversing the years on someone, giving him his old body back. Better, in my opinion, is that the damage is so severe and its such a non-standard use that it would take a special ritual to give him a body back.

EDIT:

ViolentRed, it seems in canon that its common knowledge that prophecies can't be touched by those they aren't for, at least in general terms. I go the feeling the plot using the Unspeakable was more an attempt in case it worked. Seeing the result will have taught Voldemort what he needed to know.

The problem I see with what you are thinking, is that you are looking at each book without reference to what we learn in the later ones. We know that Voldemort knew the prophecy before he attacked Harry originally. However that isn't apparent from his actions throughout the series.

The problem with Quirrell taking Harry off for 'testing' as you put it, is that he would get noticed as Hagrid would know who Harry had gone off with (if we go with previously discussed things) or someone would notice in the whole of diagon alley who Harry had gone with. Thus its impossible for Quirrell to take Harry the re-enter society, which is a very bad thing for Voldemorts plans.

I still prefer the idea that taking Harry and going to the DoM for the prophecy is an impulse "Oh look, this could work" sort of thing. He sees Harry and decides to chance his luck.

 

No, it isn't. Voldemort needs to be specifically informed by Rockwood (a former Unspeakable) that only he and Harry could take the prophecy. He actually had to discard all his former plans after learning that, so there's no way he actually already knew about it (chapter 26, OotP). It would be weird if something like that was common knowledge, seeing as most people probably don't even know about the Chamber of Prophecies at all, never mind the protections. It's called the Department of Mysteries for a reason.

Well, taking Harry wouldn't really be a well thought out plan. It's just what logically follows from trying and failing to kill Harry. It's not like he can just let him go afterwards. And Voldemort wouldn't want to, not before finding out how Harry keeps surviving at the least. So yeah, he would get noticed. But having stolen the Stone already, that wouldn't really matter to Voldemort. It would be of less importance than finding out Harry's 'power' anyway.

And why would Voldemort want Harry to re-enter society anyway? He wants him dead. And he'll probably want everyone to know who killed him. Dark Lord Kills Boy-Who-Lived makes for a nice comeback.

Making it impossible for Quirrel to go back into society would actually be a fair reason to use Harry for the prophecy. Put him under the Imperius Curse, feed him some Polyjuice end send him off. Quirrel wouldn't be able to go himself, because his possesion by Voldemort disrupts the potion. And then, right before taking the prophecy, Harry fight off the curse and looks for help.

 

I accept you're initial point, that is me mis-remembering. However, your next section is incorrect. Kidnapping Harry is not what follows from failing to kill him, its the product of someone smarter than you quickly thinking through a situation and deciding what the best option is. Voldemort knows about the prophecy, he knows that Harry can get it where Quirrell cannot (its reasonable to think/assume that he has plans in play to get the prophecy before he fell, that some of those plans failed, thus he knows its protected, common sense leap that it won't be protected from a person who is involved in the prophecy).

You will also notice I never mentioned Harry re-entering society. Only Quirrell. By kidnapping Harry it is impossible for him to re-enter society, unless he is able to do it in someway with complete security (that would depend on how he broke into Gringotts).

 

The first question I would ask. Is a plot where Voldemort comes back earlier than in canon a good plot device? The consequences might lead to an earlier war, no CoS and the Horcrux hint, probably no Sirius or in a different fashion and imho the worst factor, younger and even more incompetent Harry in a possible civil war scenario.
Does that really suggest attractive content? I have my doubts there.

 

Immediately going for the prophecy after failing to kill Harry doesn't make sense. You're putting to much value on the prophecy. First of, Voldemort never made any attempts to get it in the First War after learning part of it. We know this, because if he had tried, Rookwood would have already told him about the protections and Voldemort wouldn't have spend half a year making attempt that would never work.

And it isn't strange Voldemort doesn't really care about the rest of the prophecy. He already knows the most important part after all. Or he thinks he does, anyway. He knows there's someone out there, that could defeat him. He didn't really need to know the rest of the prophecy, because he already had a tried and true method to make it go away. Simply kill the guy that could kill him. It's only after Harry 'bested' him in a duel and Voldemort becomes afraid he might actually somehow be stronger than him, that he realizes there might be more to the prophecy. So going for the prophecy the moment killing Harry fails wouldn't make sense. Especially when he doesn't have a plan, doesn't where the prophecy is exactly (he had to send Nagini first) and could lose the Philosopher's Stone if something went wrong.

Taking Harry, however, and trying to figure out how he could survive all his attacks would makes sense. In canon Voldemort had about two years to figure out Harry's protection and how he could get around it. And he did. But it did take him a long time. And that's logical, because Voldemort doesn't even understand love, never mind Love Protections. So when he doesn't have that kind of time, because Dumbledore is on his ass searching for Harry and because that fucking little brat is right there in front of him, defying his almighty power, he starts to grasp for straws. And the prophecy is that straw. It's not some Word of God he goes to the moment something doesn't add up. For what could the silly rambling of some demented old witch tell him, that Lord Fucking Voldemort can't figure out himself? It is, however, his seemingly last option when everything he tried failed and he starts to get nervous, because that little prophecied kid actually seems to have some kind of power he doesn't have.

Why would Voldemort care Quirrell can't get back into society? The only reason he possessed him, was to find a way to the stone. He now has the stone. Quirrel is done. He now only serves as a temporary vessel, until Voldemort can make himself a new body. It's not like he still needs Quirrell to go to Hogwarts for anything.