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Indian Elections

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Trooper, May 7, 2014.

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  1. crimson sun06

    crimson sun06 Unspeakable

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    It may not have hurt Vajpayee but it definitely hurt India. The development agenda he fought on became completely moot at the hands of negative campaigning done by his rivals and as a result of which projects he began lost traction and delayed by years.

    I think you give Manmohan too much credit when you say he won elections. He was just a stand-in for the Gandhi family. When Congress won the elections in 2004 he was given the post after Sonia refused .

    2009 victory had a lot more factors going for it than Manmohan's leadership skills. But I digress. The fact remains however despite being the PM he remained weak and at the mercy of the whims of the more corrupt members of the alliance.

    I think being active in general is a better option than being worried or content. So if things look like they are getting out of hand I have faith we can correct our course. Some of the other issues you mentioned like Ram Mandir are not even part of the election manifesto of the BJP. Not sure about the Romeo squads anymore but last I heard of them was immediately after UP polls which was quite some time ago.

    The cow lynchings are a matter of concern I'll admit.
     
  2. Genghiz Khan

    Genghiz Khan Order Member

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    The issue is tone, not substance. You might argue it did these leaders no good, and sure, we could debate that till we're both blue in the face without reaching a conclusion so I will instead say this. Vajpayee lost because the message of prosperity he was pushing wasn't working with most Indians. While I don't remember the specifics, I know that he was terribly hurt (electorally) by the mobilization of the Indian army after the Parliament attacks without actually letting it loose on Pakistan and by his focus on urban India over rural India. I'm not convinced it had much to do with the style of his oratory.

    I agree that Manmohan Singh isn't exactly the best argument to put forward when it comes to Prime Ministers, but to be honest, the guy managed to negotiate the nuclear deal (I know that he stood firm on it and convinced Sonia to rally the numbers to pass it) and his speaking style was that of a scholar. I'm biased towards him, I'll admit, because I think he spoke sense when he opened his mouth. Modi speaks much more crudely. I'm sure it's a factor in him winning elections, but it doesn't endear him to me. The Rajiv Gandhi taunt, for example, does not befit a sitting PM of the world's largest democracy. If you accuse me of holding him to higher standards than I hold the rest of the political class, then I plead guilty. As the PM, he should be held to higher standards of discourse.

    Building the Ram Mandir doesn't need to be part of the election manifesto. Consider this. The Mandir has been used to stroke communal tensions since 1990. If it gets built, there will need to be something new to rally the masses. The BJP cannot put the Ram Mandir in their manifesto because if they put it there and they do not build it, they're fucked. Much easier to fan the flames of building it and keeping the masses energised without actually promising anything.

    Maybe I'm cynical, but if I were a BJP strategist, that is what I'd do.

    As for anti-Romeo squads, they're still out and active. If you live in UP it's a fucking nuisance at best, and often nearly lethal if you're a Muslim with a Hindu girlfriend.
     
  3. crimson sun06

    crimson sun06 Unspeakable

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    I think there has been some misunderstanding. I wasn't talking about the tone of their speaking but their work in general.

    Agreed that was the one time when he stood his ground in 'TEN YEARS' and even then as you said he had to convince Sonia, because she was the one who wielded the actual power.

    The post of PM became a subject of mockery during the tenure of UPA because despite being the most powerful constitutional post in the nation the person holding it had little to none and the people with the actual power had no accountability.

    With Modi at least we know he is responsible, for better or for worse.

    That's where you are wrong. The Ram Mandir had always been a part of the election manifesto before this one and the fact that the senior leadership do not talk about it anymore is reason enough to feel optimistic that it will eventually become completely irrelevant.

    I am living in NCR at the moment and haven't really heard much about them. But that's just me and maybe they really are a lot more active than I know.
     
  4. Genghiz Khan

    Genghiz Khan Order Member

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    So apparently the Mandir is part of the Sankalp Patra of the BJP. So that makes both our arguments moot, I suppose?

    And yeah, they're less active near the NCR. I've got a cousin who lives near Lucknow and he's hopping mad because apparently holding hands and walking implies "you ought to be married."
     
  5. crimson sun06

    crimson sun06 Unspeakable

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    My bad on the manifesto thing. As for the problems your cousin faces that's just the attitude of the locals of UP in general. Hell my friend cannot even share lunch with his female colleagues without provoking a comment or ten about the 'inappropriateness' of the situation.
     
  6. Genghiz Khan

    Genghiz Khan Order Member

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    @crimson sun06 It's changed after Yogi's election. He's been living there a while now, and I dunno. I haven't been there since 2012, so I don't know how true this is, but there is a change in atmosphere. It is a little... darker. A little more tense. Hindu-Muslim divides have spilled out into the open a lot more often than not, and RSS/BJP workers feel a lot more empowered to turn routine incidents into beatings or slaughters.

    Again, let me reiterate that this is as told to me by a cousin. He's pretty non-political, so him saying these things is concerning.
     
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