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Juba - sick psycho, real-life Rambo or a myth?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ip82, Jun 22, 2006.

  1. ip82

    ip82 Prisoner

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    On recommendation of some friends, I've downloaded a video about this Baghdad sniper called Juba, who's taking down American soldiers in Iraq... and records his each kill on a videotape.

    Honestly, everything about this video made me sick, from some guy wailing some sort of "inspirational" music in the background, to the callousness of killing people just for the purpose of propaganda. On the other hand, I can hardly condemn the guy as a terrorist, seeing how he's attacking only American soldiers (invaders in his homeland) and never hurts civilians. Which, once again, doesn't change the fact that the whole idea is sick.

    For more info about this, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juba_(sniper)
    You'll find links to download the video there, so judge for yourself.
     
  2. SLASH SUCKS

    SLASH SUCKS Backtraced

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    Not very professonal most of this idiots shots are him hiding as a civilian and shooting U.S. soldiers. He also took some shots, while he was in a vehicle, similar to the beltway sniper, hinding in the trunk of a car. If we wanted that guy, all we would have to do is be very brutal in the retaliation, like say bomb the shit out of him or mow down civilians because they are in on it I guarantee. Notice the civilians see the U.S soldier drop down after a bang and just keep walking The same thing with the Haditha "Massacre", the children knew about the "I.E.D" They said they were covering their ears before the explosion went off (slip of tounge). Good thing children are so honest and they wonder why soldiers gunned down there families. I think Iraq war is officially like everyone predicted, Vietnam. Soldiers can't tell friend from foe anymore. The "enemy" isn't distinguishable they are camoflauged as civilians. What angers me more than anything is how these fockers desicrate American soldiers body's by filming the dead corpses, and ritualisticly laying down all the stolen items on a blianket and then filming the body(s) up close (seperate video). Not to mention the public beheadings.
     
  3. Litha Riddle

    Litha Riddle Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    This was one of the reason's I hated the idea of war.
    Soldiers caught in a propaganda cross fire.
    I think it's time the UK and US got their asses out of Iraq.

    My cousin is there now and I hate the idea, soldiers are for fighting wars not law keeping.
    After the war they should have brought them home.
    If Blair and Bush want Iraq so much let them fucking police it.

    The tension is just going to grow and more will die, all because of two politicians pride.

    I think this Juba is sick and I'm sad that it suits our governments, to let him get away with it. If they could find Saddam in a fucking hole I'm sure they can find one sniper.

    Litha
     
  4. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    Our governments let a sniper get away with, uh, waging guerilla and mental warfare against people invading his country?

    Wrong.

    Our militaries do, and if you had read the article fully:

    My personal opinion? The guy is fine in my book. If, say, the Russians and Chinese were to blitz the US, I'd likely do much, much more horrificly depraved things to the bastards then just sniping, and it'd be hypocritical of me to condemn him thusly.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2006
  5. Giovanni

    Giovanni God of Scotch

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    People have been using snipers, sharpshooters, and other 'specialists' for propaganda purposes long before Iraq, so this development is hardly surprising. It allows the force using the propaganda tool to simultaneously suffer severe losses, but still claim victory. Can any among us genuinely claim surprise and mean it? War, despite all the 'modern rules' is still a contest in killing. It may offend us to see these images, but it probably offends the Iraqi's to see some of the shit we put on television.

    I am NOT trying to rationalize this man's (or these men's) existence(s) or his/their actions. I am however saying that in the equation of war, his/their existence is inevitable.

    Onto the subject of the war itself, we should not have invaded, plain and simple. And we should of certainly had an exit strategy. Having a plan of getting the fuck out is an important part of any successful campaign. Bush, Blair, and Co. seem to have forgotten that.
     
  6. ip82

    ip82 Prisoner

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    That's what I'm thinking too, but it still make me sick how they practically make a terrorist motivational tape out of real people getting killed.
     
  7. Shade Emrys

    Shade Emrys Third Year

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    I cannot condemn a guy for killing people who shouldn't be in his country in the first place. It is just another part of war. The American people are a bunch of hypocrites. The U.S. was started by a group of terrorists the last time I checked. Does the Boston Tea Party ring any bells? What disgusts me more than anything is the many stupid people that live in this country. I hate people who cannot see anything past Americans are always right and everyone else is wrong. It is that kind of attitude that makes us despised around the world.
     
  8. World

    World Oberstgruppenführer Moderator DLP Supporter

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    You must be disgusted by yourself then.

    Boston Tea Party? Oh yeah, horrific terrorist attack, thousands dead, tragic, really. Oh wait, no, it was a peaceful protest. They just destroyed some tea. Lemme quote Wikipedia:
    Yeah, real terrorists they were.

    On the topic, someone remember that movie, Enemy At The Gates (that was the subtitle I think), which featured a Russian Sniper taking out German officers in WWII who was also used as propaganda material. No one horrified there.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2006
  9. SLASH SUCKS

    SLASH SUCKS Backtraced

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    yeah, but they didn't show the sniper hitting anybody on video in WW2. Which makes this completly different, in my opinion. Yeah, technology is different, but is it really necessary to show U.S soldiers getting shot and using the tape for propaganda? If they really wanted to win the hearts and minds of their people, they would be showing how honorable they are by treating captured soldiers with respect to the Geneva convention. However, these people as a society value life "differently", or value life less than most other countries. They execute people on tape for the purpose of "intimidation", which only fuels the fires, and justifies soldiers to perform similar acts in retaliation. The Abu Ghraib thing is a joke, in my opinion, I'm glad those idiots are going to prison for what they did, but Look on the opposing side, they execute P.O.W's, torture then "proudly" display themselves on the internet, whering black bags with eye slitted holes. Notice we punish soldiers that do that kinda shit, while it's encouraged there. Abu Ghraib occured because we have soldiers, who are not properly trained to handle prisoners, they need proper correctional officer training, so they know the rules and the consequences of breaking those set rules. For more info, look at the 70's stanford study, that shows the abuse of power of regular people put in authoratative posistions, without given proper C.O. instruction.
     
  10. Shade Emrys

    Shade Emrys Third Year

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    Yea, because the tea party didn't lead to a bloody war, and the colonists didn't pour hot tar on people and then place feathers on them, nor did they beat up and burn the houses of people who supported England. Oh wait yea they did. They ruined the lives of people who supported England because they didn't want to pay taxes. How unrealistic is it to request representation when it takes 90 days to reach England. The colonists would have never been able to get important information to there representatives in time for anything to be done about their problems.

    The fact is the whole war was about money and power not freedom and the colonists were nothing more than a group of terrorists. If the war was really about people having equal rights then they would have given everyone equal rights not just white males who owned land. The war was just a waste of life.
     
  11. World

    World Oberstgruppenführer Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Oh, yeah, Boston Tea Party, that's what it was called. I mistook that for the Boston Tea Party where they destroyed tea. I now see you mean the Boston Tea Party where they burned houses (and drank tea, right, else it wouldn't be called Tea Party, right?).

    Slash: I don't know, if they could have done so, do you doubt that they would have?
    I wasn't defending it in any way, it's just the way war and everything that belongs to it is like.
     
  12. SLASH SUCKS

    SLASH SUCKS Backtraced

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    Could you be more vauge, I have no idea what you are talking about?

    The Colonists had other reasons to be angry at the English. Prisoners were transported from England to Austrailia and to the Colonies in order for the English to be rid of their prisoners. When you take all of the crap from society and it concentrates in certain areas, obviously there is going to be rebellion, the English setup the elements for terrorists or (Freedom fighters) by not taking care of their own problems and abandonng them to other continents. I'm aware some of these criminals were sent to exile for petty crimes they also were allowed to work off their "debt to society" by being sold to contractors as slaves on these continents, so there was much more unjust treatment than just taxes without representation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2006
  13. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    /chuckles/ The revolution was a struggle for freedom so that we had power over our own people, who already had a society quiet different from the British, and were already segregated in English culture.

    We wanted freedom for more money and more concentrated, and more command over, our power.

    The bitter fact, for you atleast, is that the terrorists who succeed are revolutionaries, and will be lauded as hero's and made as icons of certain values by those who admire their duties to the respective nation.

    If you don't like it, then why not just tune the shit out, or are you incapable?
     
  14. World

    World Oberstgruppenführer Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Slash: I didn't really have a point, I just mentioned it because the topic reminded me of it.

    I'd say that any way of propaganda belongs to the war. Different societies have different propagandas. 'Converting' heathens was probably quite popular during the times of the crusade or the conquests in South America.
     
  15. Shade Emrys

    Shade Emrys Third Year

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    Xiph0 it is not a bitter fact for me. I could care less about what you want to call them. The point I was trying to make is that war is caused by people who want money and power and that there are two sides to every story. Most people I talk to only consider one side of the argument and never stop to realize that just because a man is referred to as a terrorist by one person doesn't mean he is a terrorist to everyone. Right and wrong are both very subjective words which is why it is hard to place judgement on someone who believes he is doing what is right.
     
  16. Rahkesh Asmodaeus

    Rahkesh Asmodaeus THUNDAH Bawd Admin DLP Supporter

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    What the fuck? How the hell do you get Boston Tea Party from someone sniping at United States soldiers?

    OMG, they threw tea overboard! How could they! A tea genocide! ZOMG!

    Ridiculous. And does it matter that it started a bloodshed? No.
     
  17. Giovanni

    Giovanni God of Scotch

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    Ok, originally I wasn't gonna post shit... It's been a long day, and I didn't feel like uncorking one of my usual long winded "Why I Think You're Wrong" posts.

    But now after a few shots, I have reread this idiocy -- and I am left with the conclusion that I have no alternative but to set the record straight.

    Shade Emrys, I do not know how many extra chromosomes you have -- nor do I wish to. I do not know who told you the garbled version of history, or the innaccurate definition of terrorism your posts alluded to -- nor am I interested in knowing. With that said, I do not wish to be offensive, but after rereading what I have written, that is probably what I am being.

    First let us begin with your equating tarring and feathering with terrorist attacks. The essence of terrorism is fear. This is a point agreed upon by political scientists on both the left and the right. The tarring and feathering of tax collectors was done by the colonists as a method of protest. It was not meant to shake faith in government through fear, it was meant to disrupt government operations and perhaps alter Governmental policies. Therefore calling it terrorism is disingenuous.

    Secondly your sarcastic "the tea party didn't lead to war" point is also incorrect. Saying that the Boston Tea Party along with the tarring and feathering of British tax collectors caused The American Revolution is like saying that the sole cause of the United States Civil War was the issue of slavery. You need o understand that no conflict is caused by any single event. The Tea Party was just one of many events.

    As for your last 'who are we to judge' point, I would instead say that no, we cannot judge the actions of those in the distant past. However in the present we are all perfectly capable of judging actions. As an International Community we have ALL agreed on a group of actions that do not fall within the bounds of acceptable conduct during a time of peace OR a time of war. They include:

    Genocide
    Unlawful Detention
    Execution of POW's
    Torture

    Both sides in this conflict have violated three of the four, and depending on how you look at it, Saddam violated all four.

    Now I normally support some degree of moral relativism, however these are rules that I think we as a society can support. There is no excuse for Genocide. That is why Hitler and Stalin are two of the most reviled human beings in modern human history. That is why General Sherman's March To The Sea is seldom given more than a cursory glance in High School History Classes. That is why Slobodon Milosevic was on trial at The Hague.

    There are certain guidelines for acceptable conduct, so are we qualified to judge within those guidelines? Absolutely. Now please do us all a favor and learn the accepted definition of terrorism before innaccurately (and incorrectly) slandering historical figures.

    Thank you.
     
  18. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    Despite knowing this, I can't honestly shake the feeling that you're an utter moron.

    /Goes off to ponder that.
     
  19. SLASH SUCKS

    SLASH SUCKS Backtraced

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    Don't mean to take sides, but I have to disagree with you Giovanni because for one there is no definition of terrorism. There are literally HUNDREDS of definitions of terrorism and nobody can agree to any particular definition. I know this because of my terrorism and violence course this was drilled into our heads. The professor would refer to terrorists as "freedom fighters" after calling them terrorists, always correcting himself.

    "There is no universally accepted definition of terrorism and even when people agree on a definition of terrorism, they sometimes disagree about whether or not the definition fits a particular incident. In order to understand terrorism, one must assess the different views of what exactly constitutes terrorism. Reaching a general conclusion on the definition of terrorism has generated much debate in the social sciences and internationally. No single definition seems to satisfy the wide interpretation of what specifically is terrorism. Since September 11th a large coalition has been formed to combat Terrorism. In order for this coalition to work there will have to be a universally excepted definition in order for the coalition to form plans and act." Source from http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/Security/Terrordef.html

    Edit: I do agree with all your other points though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2006
  20. Litha Riddle

    Litha Riddle Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    But who controls the military, as the head of the British army said; they are the servant of the state.

    I read more than the one article because sometimes wikipedia can be biased.
    Juba may be one guy or he may be a group, it doesn't stop them being sick.

    If you must kill to defend your country then why videotape it.
    Also if it wasn't beneficial for our governments, then why didn't they prevent the discs being passed on.
    I'm probably being paranoid but I think there is more to this conflict then meets the eye. There are too many power plays for it to be just the military.

    I still think the war was wrong and I just want our soldiers back home.

    Litha

    P.s please don't take offense it's just an opinion.
     
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